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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Major

    Major Member

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    But he is a genius and has access to big data.
     
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  2. Major

    Major Member

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    Or he is like every other deranged lunatic dictator and thought he was stronger that he was, thought his opponent was weaker than it was, and he didn't foresee the possibility that anyone would actually stand up to him.

    The West didn't see any chance of the Ukraine holding up either, and has changed their actions over the weekend based on this new reality too.
     
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  3. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    We never forgot about Russia, the were worried about Russia when the met at Malta before Germany surrendered, Churchill was leading the charge.

    We knew about Russia all during the occupation of Germany because of what was going on in Berlin and the need for the airlift.

    We had an adversarial position with Russia since WW II ended, how do you think we forgot about Russia?
     
  4. Supermac34

    Supermac34 President, Von Wafer Fan Club

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    The military hardware isn't actually all that bad. Its just been ill maintained. The biggest reason for his struggle is relying on conscripts to make the bulk of his fighting force. Russian mandatory service is 12 months. By the time they are trained, they're out. Armor success required precise coordination between infantry and armor that is drilled into the infantry until its perfect. They aren't getting that from their conscripts, which puts the infantry AND the armor at risk.

    We are also seeing the result of 8 years of the West training and outfitting Ukraine has done.
     
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  5. Supermac34

    Supermac34 President, Von Wafer Fan Club

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    Peloton used big data for their business plan. What have they been up to lately?
     
  6. Supermac34

    Supermac34 President, Von Wafer Fan Club

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    To be fair, nobody has stood up to him for 2 decades. His Big Data would have told him that, LOL.
     
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  7. CCorn

    CCorn Member

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    Imagine voting for this twat

     
  8. subtomic

    subtomic Contributing Member
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    I think he's saying that we haven't been attentive enough to Russia since the end of the cold war (which began in 1989 and probably officially ended in 1991). And to some extent, I think that's correct - we very much stood back after the dissolution of the Soviet Union and allowed the looting of the county by organized crime and strongmen.

    Now to what degree the US should (or could) have intervened in the last 30 years is certainly up for debate. I don't think either the former Soviet leaders or the Russian people would have tolerated a Germany or Japan-style occupation by the US, nor would the American people have probably been amendable to paying for years of investing tax dollars in the country they grew up fearing/hating/loathing.
     
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  9. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Tanks were the WW2 vehicle of choice, but drones have mitigated tanks, they are iron coffins now.

    DD
     
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  10. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    In all honesty, other than weirdo GOP Trumpists like Cawthorn, nobody has been slurping the Russian army. Part of the reason so many in the EU have been comfortable with demilitarization is because they didn't see a real groundwar effort in Europe as a threat anymore. The "fear" of Russia has been and will continue to be the use of nuclear weapons, particularly tactical nuclear weapons. The fear is that if war broke with Russia where they were engaged with NATO they would not hesitate to use tactical nukes to achieve victories.

    Russia being a nuclear power is STILL the big problem. If we had no fear of nukes we could easily defeat any effort by Russia to march into Europe.
     
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  11. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    I'm talking after the collapse of the Soviet Union in the late 80's. The Bushes and Clinton really just left Russia to rot in economic decay which is what allowed Putin to come to power in the first place. In the 90's life in Russia was miserable - there were coups, the economy was crap, and people were generally miserable. By the end of the decade, Russians were angry and upset much the way Germany was post WWI. Had the US and NATO focused on building a thriving economy in Russia, there would be a lot more incentive for Russia to be a part of the world community vs reverting back to cold war tactics.
     
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  12. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    We did not stand back it's the reason why Putin hates Hillary with a white-hot passion and there is not much we could have done because it's a sovereign country.

    This idea that the U.S. can fix stuff like this is a myth, the U.S. simply does not have that kind of power unless we are going to occupy or install a puppet regime, and we see how that worked out in the Middle East.

    We never ignored anything, we just could do very little unless we wanted to go to war with Russia and nobody had the stomach for that.
     
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  13. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Dude is scared.

    DD
     
  14. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Russia did not want us to come in and do the same thing we did in Germany and unlike Germany we did inflict not damage on Russia, so it's not at all alike.

    There was nothing to rebuild after the 1980's.

    And again we did not ignore Russia there was nothing we really could do and Clinton and others tried to dislodge Putin, but there was not much we could do, both Bush and Clinton tried to help just look up the Clinton Yeltsin relationship.

    It's very naive to think everything happened just because we ignored Russia because we never ignored Russia.
     
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  15. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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  16. blahblehblah

    blahblehblah Member

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    https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Internat...g-painful-casualties-russia/story?id=83145245

    Here's a good article about why the invasion is going slowly for Russia and no, it's not because their armies is outdated or trash.

    Basically Putin thought a limited simple but sudden & fast attack would topple the Ukrainian govt (like in Crimea etc). But may now how to resort to using more full force, which would cause even more backlash from the world and in Russia.

    What path Putin chooses next will literally decide the life and death of tens of thousands of troops and civilians
     
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  17. PhiSlammaJamma

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    Was thinking it was being exaggerated that the Ukraines were holding their own, but seeing the footage, I believe it now. Those m'fers are bringing it.
     
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  18. London'sBurning

    London'sBurning Contributing Member

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    Not really Ukraine related other than the mention of war and casualties in the text.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Agent94

    Agent94 Member

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    It’s the other way around. Putin controls the oligarchs. They don’t exist without his blessing. He will jail them or run them out of the country if they don’t fall in line.
     
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  20. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Russian soccer achieved more.
     

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