[TheAthletic] Top 75 players in NBA history - Number 11: The Dream

When it comes to skill and prime, along with dominance on both sides of the court, he's definitely in top 10 conversation, EASILY.

The problem? A relatively short main prime, and lack of titles. Sorry, but I'd have him easily over Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan any day, but they have 4-5 titles, and were consistently around other star players, so they look better and had more help. It doesn't matter, the winning is how they're remembered.

Top 5 is a hard one... you get into some really hard arguments there, and I agree with the poster who said 7-11 range is acceptable, although I'd definitely put him closer to 7. He also wasn't flashy or full of himself, so being that he didn't really market himself hard, was an international player, didn't revel in All-Star appearances, wasn't a show-off, and only had 2 titles.... I can see why he is where he is.

Its still BS, but it is what he is.

 

Kinda surprising since Dallas had a rep on the panel

 

2021 NBA’s 75(76) Greatest Players
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Ray Allen
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Carmelo Anthony
Nate Archibald
Paul Arizin
Charles Barkley
Rick Barry
Elgin Baylor
Dave Bing
Larry Bird
Kobe Bryant
Wilt Chamberlain
Bob Cousy
Dave Cowens
Billy Cunningham
Stephen Curry
Anthony Davis
Dave DeBusschere
Clyde Drexler
Tim Duncan
Kevin Durant
Julius Erving
Patrick Ewing
Walt Frazier
Kevin Garnett
George Gervin
Hal Greer
James Harden
John Havlicek
Elvin Hayes
Allen Iverson
LeBron James
Magic Johnson
Sam Jones
Michael Jordan
Jason Kidd
Kawhi Leonard
Damian Lillard
Jerry Lucas
Karl Malone
Moses Malone
Pete Maravich
Bob McAdoo
Kevin McHale
George Mikan
Reggie Miller
Earl Monroe
Steve Nash
Dirk Nowitzki
Shaquille O’Neal
Hakeem Olajuwon
Robert Parish
Chris Paul
Gary Payton
Bob Pettit
Paul Pierce
Scottie Pippen
Willis Reed
Oscar Robertson
David Robinson
Dennis Rodman
Bill Russell
Dolph Schayes
Bill Sharman
John Stockton
Isiah Thomas
Nate Thurmond
Wes Unseld
Dwyane Wade
Bill Walton
Jerry West
Russell Westbrook
Lenny Wilkens
Dominique Wilkins
James Worthy

NBA’s 75 that didn’t make The Athletic’s…
Paul Arizin
Dave Bing
Dave DeBusschere
Sam Jones
Bill Sharman
Nate Thurmond

The Athletic’s 75
75. Lenny Wilkens
74. Robert Parish
73. Pete Maravich
72. Jerry Lucas
71. Alex English (not on NBA’s 75)
70. Hal Greer
69. Alonzo Mourning (not on NBA’s 75)
68. Damian Lillard
67. Nate Archibald
66. Billy Cunningham
65. Chris Webber (not on NBA’s 75)
64. Bill Walton
63. Carmelo Anthony
62. Dennis Rodman
61. Dolph Schayes
60. Wes Unseld
59. James Worthy
58. Earl Monroe
57. Dave Cowens
56. Dwight Howard (not on NBA’s 75)
55. Tracy McGrady (not on NBA’s 75)
54. Bob McAdoo
53. Anthony Davis
52. Ray Allen
51. Dominique Wilkins
50. Paul Pierce
49. Kevin McHale
48. Gary Payton
47. Reggie Miller
46. Russell Westbrook
45. Walt Frazier
44. Willis Reed
43. Clyde Drexler
42. George Gervin
41. Elvin Hayes
40. Allen Iverson
39. Bob Cousy
38. Steve Nash
37. Patrick Ewing
36. Jason Kidd
35. George Mikan
34. Kawhi Leonard
33. James Harden
32. Scottie Pippen
31. Bob Pettit
30. Chris Paul
29. John Havlicek
28. Dwyane Wade
27. Rick Barry
26. Isiah Thomas
25. John Stockton
24. Giannis Antetokounmpo
23. Elgin Baylor
22. Charles Barkley
21. Dirk Nowitzki
20. David Robinson
19. Julius Erving
18. Moses Malone
17. Kevin Garnett
16. Karl Malone
15. Stephen Curry
14. Jerry West
13. Kevin Durant
12. Oscar Robertson
11. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Kobe Bryant
9. Tim Duncan
8. Shaquille O’Neal
7. Larry Bird
6. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Magic Johnson
4. Bill Russell
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. LeBron James
1. Michael Jordan

 

Bill Russell is the one guy I always have the toughest time with. He played so long ago on a team that was so stacked compared to all the others at that time and he wasn't a dominate scorer. It gets hard to rank with those factors coupled with judging the league during the times I have been a fan (started in the early 90s).

It is for those reasons that whenever I do my own rankings they typically start from the merger. Even though I was not watching those first 15 years or so the game was modern enough with more teams in the league to make it more comparable to today's game as well as moments from the late 70s-80s being more accessible.

Kareem is the one hurt the most by this because this wipes out his first 7 years or so in the league. But to his credit even without the 1st 3rd of his career he still stacks up well. His run from 76-79 in the early merger days ranks up their with any centers 4 or 5 year runs after him.

 

There aren't 10 players I take over Dream. When considering his overall impact both offensively and defensively, I'm taking him over Kobe (RIP), Bird, Duncan, and Bill Russell very easily.

 

I agree but yes, it shouldn't be about the titles only.

Too bad a lot of these writers were not watching a lot during the early 90s.

I like Lebron a lot but I take Kareem over him any day.

 

As an individual player on both ends I have Hakeem as the GOAT center and #3 all time slightly above Kareem.

I value who was the best individual player in combined offensive and defensive impact. I don't rank individual players on championships because that is a team based accolade and ranks teams imo. I also value career playoff performance over regular season and peak or longevity equally within reason.

I also take microscope to players as I enjoy studying the game and history. Looking at everything, team support (including coaching), competition, rules of the era etc. Some may have better careers due to team support etc., but as an individual player Hakeem is legitimately better than all of them but Jordan and LeBron imo.

 

https://theathletic.com/3134630/202...ts-a-new-way-to-historically-compare-players/

[…]

In the process of making my list of 75 players for The Athletic’s project, I developed a formula to help guide my process.

That formula is called GOAT Points, which stands for Greatest Of All Time (duh). I don’t have some funky alternative abbreviation, sorry, nor have I found an obscure backup center to name this after (someday I will create a formula called SMREK).

I’m trying to separate the players who succeeded at the highest levels from the ones who were very good players for a long time. Because of that, the indicators of elite, MVP candidate-level value are orders of magnitude more valuable than more mundane displays of excellence (like making the All-Star team or third-team All-NBA), which in other contexts might be very impressive.

GOAT Points is a cumulative points system that adds up all the “quality” from a player’s career. It rewards longevity, but not at the expense of excellence. Bill Walton’s 1976-77 and 1977-78 seasons are worth more than a lot of players’ careers. I can’t answer every question from the list above via this method, but by tilting the formula toward players with “yes” answers to the questions above, we can get closer to some objective understanding of where a player’s career accomplishments stand.

Here’s the system:

MVP vote shares: 50 points for each 1.0

Basketball-reference.com has a system for determining a player’s share of the MVP vote, which is a more precise metric than a binary first-second-third and even allows us to distinguish among near-unanimous awards from more contested votes.

For example, Walton had 0.117 MVP vote shares in 1977 (when he finished second) and 0.403 MVP vote shares in 1978 (when he narrowly won). He goes in the books with 0.52 career vote shares. The all-time leader here is James with 8.8, including 0.998 in the nearly unanimous 2013 vote.

There are eight players (Julius Erving, Rick Barry, Billy Cunningham, Spencer Haywood, Artis Gilmore, Connie Hawkins, George McGinnis and Mel Daniels) who factor at least somewhat into the top-75 discussion and received significant ABA MVP vote shares; I took these at one-third of their value. This feels like a fair adjustment: First, because the ABA had half as many teams as the NBA for nearly the entirety of its existence, and second, while it was close to the NBA in quality, I don’t think anyone thought it achieved full parity.

Additionally, I had to go back and give an estimated 3.5 MVP vote shares to George Mikan; the league didn’t give out the award until 1955-56. If you’re scoring at home, I also gave 1.0 to Joe Fulks and 0.5 to Paul Arizin.

Not surprisingly, the top 17 players in GOAT Points all won at least one MVP award. (The leader among non-MVPs is Jerry West, who finished second four times.)

All-NBA — First Team: 10 points each; Second Team: 3 points each; Third Team: 1 point each; First Team All-ABA: 5 points each

Roughly tripling the value between First and Second Team, and again between Second and Third, keeps the emphasis on the highest-value achievements. Note that even First Team All-NBA is just one-fifth as valuable as a full MVP vote share. Consistent with the treatment above, I also halved the reward for achieving First Team in the ABA and did not acknowledge the Second Team.

The all-time leader here is, again, James, with 13 First Team All-NBA selections.

Only two players — Reggie Miller and Bob Lanier — cracked the top 75 in GOAT Points without ever making First or Second Team All-NBA.

Finals MVP: 10 points each

Note that for players who played before the advent of the award in 1969, I had to “award” an NBA Finals MVP based on who likely would have won it that year. I handed out seven to Bill Russell, four to Mikan, one more to Wilt Chamberlain, and one each to Bob Pettit, Bob Cousy, Arizin, Bob Davies, Sam Jones and Dolph Schayes. Hopefully, you agree with my voting.

Other than Russell’s “seven,” the all-time leader here is Michael Jordan, who has six NBA Finals MVPs.

All-Star team selections: 1 point each

In the context of comparing all-time greats, making the All-Star team is just not that big a deal; it’s the floor, not the ceiling.

Every player in the GOAT Points top 75 was named to at least five All-Star teams except Mikan and Fulks, who, for some of their careers, didn’t have All-Star games to play in (I “selected” them for the years they were First Team all-league and didn’t have a game to play in, bringing Mikan’s total to six and Fulks’ to five), and Nikola Jokic, who presumably will play in his fifth in 2023.

I did not acknowledge making an ABA All-Star team; in conferences with five and six teams, respectively, the bar was just too low.

Career Win Shares above 100: 1 point

To balance some of the emphasis on peak value versus career value, and to reward more general team accomplishment and durability, I added a bonus for players who achieved at least 100 career win shares. This is a fairly simplistic measurement, yes, but it has the advantage of being available back to the beginning of the NBA.

Ninety-one players in NBA history have at least 100 win shares and get extra points this way. Most got scraps, however; only 26 players in league annals cleared 150 win shares, for instance. Setting a bar at 100 strikes a balance between rewarding quality longevity without overly rewarding “hanging around” years or overly punishing players with brief peaks.

The career leader in win shares is Kareem Abdul-Jabbar with 273, earning him 173 extra GOAT Points. Note that I did not count ABA win shares here; there are some totals from the early years of that league that are just batty, and it produced results that I don’t think I could defend. However, I did count the ABA contribution to career BPM (see below), which was not nearly as distorting.

Career BPM above 2.0: 7.5 points per point

We have a contribution from the advanced stats, somewhat. Basketball-reference only has box plus/minus (BPM) dating back to 1974 and uses some tricks to fill in gaps for everything before 1985, so it’s more valuable for modern players than for old-timers. I included it here to help weigh the modern players. I think it’s hard for us to answer the question “How great is Paul George?” while he’s still playing, and this helps provide a historical guide.

The limitation here is that I had to make crude estimates for pre-1974 players, generally giving them the benefit of the doubt and rating them comparable to historical peers from later eras. Because of this, I had to make BPM’s contribution relatively minor. Doubling my estimate for Elgin Baylor, for instance, would only move him up three spots in the GOAT Points standings.

So what do GOAT Points give us? Still a lot of questions about comparing eras and roles. For example, what do we do with Mikan? GOAT Points tell us something we already know — he kicked the crap out of everyone in the early 1950s — but tells us nothing about the relative strength of the league then versus in 1972, let alone 1992 or 2022.

GOAT Points don’t know what to do with Dennis Rodman, either, or how to handle cases of extreme longevity (Karl Malone, John Stockton), or what to do about Jordan skipping two years of his prime and then retiring at 35*. It can’t tell you whether Walt Frazier was better than Isiah Thomas, or if Clyde Drexler was better than Wade, or if 1.75 awesome seasons from Walton is better than 15 years of Robert Parish being the third-best center in the Eastern Conference.

(*Those seasons with the Wizards didn’t happen)

What it can do, at least, is set the stage for the discussion. Maybe I weighted some stuff too highly and other things not high enough. Surely there are ways this can be improved in the coming years, especially if we get more historical advanced stats.

But I think it also brings some important debate questions to light, particularly regarding a few players who were excluded from the NBA’s top-75 list, and I’ll talk a little more about those in a few days.

OK, enough of my yapping. It’s time for the envelopes. Here’s what the GOAT Points formula spits out for the top-100 players in pro basketball history:

 

TIER I: The Inner Circle
Career GOAT Points, 1-11
RANK PLAYER GOAT POINTS
1 LeBron James | 847.7
2 Michael Jordan | 764.2
3 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar | 679.1
4 Tim Duncan | 519.2
5 Karl Malone | 517.6
6 Wilt Chamberlain | 512.0
7 Larry Bird | 499.7
8 Magic Johnson | 498.6
9 Bill Russell | 483.5
10 Kobe Bryant | 475.1
11 Shaquille O'Neal | 474.6

I was hoping there’d be a nice, clean top 10, but actually, 11 seems like a better cut-off point. There is a very narrow gap between Nos. 4 and 11 in particular; meanwhile, there is a 118-point gap between Shaquille O’Neal at No. 11 and Oscar Robertson and No. 12.

The names at the top will get all the attention, especially since the main difference between James and Jordan in GOAT Points is the fact that one played so many more years than the other.

Malone’s presence here will rankle the “RINGZZZZ” crowd, and I would rank him lower, as well. Again, it’s hard for a formula like this to adjust for somebody being the fourth-best player in the league for 43 consecutive seasons or whatever it was.

TIER II: The All-Timers
Career GOAT points, 12-24
RANK PLAYER GOAT POINTS
12 Oscar Robertson | 356.5
13 Kevin Durant | 353.3
14 David Robinson | 345.1
15 James Harden | 343.1
16 Kevin Garnett | 339.1
17 Jerry West | 329.5
18 Bob Pettit | 328.5
19 Hakeem Olajuwon | 328.0
20 George Mikan | 326.0
21 Charles Barkley | 316.0
22 Dirk Nowitzki | 311.1
23 Moses Malone | 298.0
24 Chris Paul | 297.6

It’s amazing what a nice, compact tier of greatness this is. Every one of these players got between 310 and 371 GOAT Points, after which we have another big dropoff. Every one of them except Chris Paul and West won an MVP award, and all of them had at least 1.8 MVP Award shares. (West finished second four times, and his 1970 runner-up spot to Willis Reed was one of the closest votes in history; Paul has five top-five finishes.) Argue amongst yourselves about what order to put these guys in between 12 and 24, or how you want to handle Mikan, but their résumés are abundantly superior to every remaining player on the page.

TIER III: The Outer Part of the Inner Circle
Career GOAT Points, 25-32
RANK PLAYER GOAT POINTS
25 Julius Erving | 241.5
26 Steph Curry | 226.8
27 Steve Nash | 226.7
28 John Stockton | 214.2
29 Elgin Baylor | 213.5
30 Bob Cousy | 209.5
31 Dolph Schayes | 196.5
32 Giannis Antetokounmpo | 196.4

These players aren’t quite in the top 25. Well, not yet at least: Giannis Antetokounmpo and Steph Curry look poised to comfortably pass everyone else in this tier by the time their careers are done, but we can’t give credit for presumed future accomplishments. For now, the eight players between 25 and 32 represent a nice, comfortable boundary between the ZOMG accomplishments of the top 24 and the more mortal players who come up after them on the chart.

TIER IV: The No-Doubts-About-It (*Mostly)
Career GOAT Points, 33-46
RANK PLAYER GOAT POINTS
33 Jason Kidd | 169.6
34 Dwight Howard | 169.0
35 Kawhi Leonard | 162.0
36 Rick Barry | 160.8
37 Russell Westbrook | 160.3
38 Patrick Ewing | 152.8
39 John Havlicek | 151.5
40 Dwyane Wade | 151.4
41 Allen Iverson | 151.0
42 Gary Payton | 149.5
43 Clyde Drexler | 139.7
44 Nikola Jokic | 133.3
45 George Gervin | 132.8
46 Scottie Pippen | 127.7

No more sharp gradients here, just a nice gentle slope from Jason Kidd at 33 to Scottie Pippen at 46. I don’t think there are a lot of controversial names, with the glaring exception of two who somehow didn’t make the NBA’s top-75 list: Dwight Howard and Jokic. (Note on Jokic: All stats are through the 2020-21 season.)

Jokic is just a ridiculous omission that will only seem more laughable as time passes, while Howard seems more like a temporary blind spot from voters who remember the recent decline phases of careers much more clearly than the primes. In terms of awards, statistics and MVP consideration, the résumés of both are abundantly top-75 worthy. Even if we limited ourselves to the top 50, they still should make the cut.

TIER V: The Clear Hall of Famers
Career GOAT Points, 47-63
RANK PLAYER GOAT POINTS
47 Anthony Davis | 122.4
48 Elvin Hayes | 114.0
49 Tracy McGrady | 114.0
50 Willis Reed | 113.5
51 Dominique Wilkins | 108.4
52 Paul Pierce | 103.6
53 Joe Fulks | 103.0
54 Bob McAdoo | 99.2
55 Reggie Miller | 98.3
56 Dave Cowens | 97.0
57 Paul Arizin | 97.0
58 Hal Greer | 92.0
59 Walt Frazier | 90.5
60 Isiah Thomas | 86.8
61 Robert Parish | 84.0
62 Wes Unseld | 81.8
63 Ray Allen | 80.9

I’m surprised what a clean tier GOAT Points gave us this far down the list. Do as you wish with Fulks and Arizin, the two biggest stars of the late 1940s, but 14 of the other 15 players here made the NBA’s top-75 list, and I don’t think there were many objections to any of them.

The one exception is Tracy McGrady, whom current voters may remember a bit too strongly for his decline years rather than his torching everybody from 2000 to 2007. McGrady finished in the top eight of the MVP voting six times and made five first or second All-NBA teams, which gives him a strong case in the questions list above.

TIER VI: Splitting Hairs: The Last Dozen
Career GOAT Points, 64-75
RANK PLAYER GOAT POINTS
64 Sidney Moncrief | 79.5
65 Alonzo Mourning | 78.5
66 Bill Sharman | 77.5
67 Billy Cunningham | 77.0
68 Bob Lanier | 76.8
69 Damian Lillard | 76.1
70 Pau Gasol | 76.0
71 Connie Hawkins | 75.1
72 Chauncey Billups | 75.0
73 Tiny Archibald | 73.0
74 Artis Gilmore | 71.4
75 Chris Webber | 70.7

Here’s where we get into distinctions that frankly are harder for GOAT Points to render a strong opinion on. Was Pau Gasol better than Chris Webber? Maybe, but only 5.3 points separate them.

More interestingly, nearly every name here didn’t make the NBA’s list. That includes old-timers whom this methodology may overrate (Bill Sharman), extreme longevity guys (Artis Gilmore) and extreme brevity guys (Cunningham, Hawkins), and one player who clearly should have been on the NBA’s list (Hello, Sidney Moncrief). Another interesting name here is Lanier, who gets a bit forgotten in NBA annals and, playing in an area of great centers, had zero All-NBA selections … but had two top-five MVP finishes and a career BPM of 4.5.

TIER VII: Almost Famous
Career GOAT points, 76-120
RANK PLAYER GOAT POINTS
76 Adrian Dantley | 70.3
77 Bill Walton | 69.3
78 Joel Embiid | 68.8
79 Grant Hill | 68.5
80 Mel Daniels | 66.6
81 Luka Doncic | 66.3
82 Spencer Haywood | 66.0
83 Paul George | 64.8
84 Tony Parker | 63.0
85 Bernard King | 62.0
86 Bob Davies | 61.0
87 Carmelo Anthony | 60.0
88 Derrick Rose | 59.5
89 Vince Carter | 57.5
90 Dave Bing | 57.0
91 Kevin McHale | 55.8
92 Neil Johnston | 55.0
93 Jerry Lucas | 55.0
94 Blake Griffin | 53.0
95 Pete Maravich | 41.0
96 Lenny Wilkens | 40.5
97 Shawn Marion | 40.3
98 Chris Mullin | 40.3
99 Manu Ginobili | 39.5
100 Kyrie Irving | 38.5
101 George McGinnis | 38.1
102 Dikembe Mutombo | 38.0
103 Dennis Johnson | 38.0
104 Alex English | 36.8
105 Chris Bosh | 36.0
106 Nate Thurmond | 34.0
107 Yao Ming | 34.0
108 Sam Jones | 34.0
109 Jack Sikma | 32.0
110 Tom Heinsohn | 29.0
111 Ben Wallace | 27.8
112 Joe Dumars | 27.0
113 James Worthy | 26.0
114 Rudy Gobert | 24.3
115 Dave DeBusschere | 22.0
116 Dan Issel | 18.8
117 Earl Monroe | 18.0
118 Draymond Green | 15.0
119 Andre Iguodala | 12.2
120 Dennis Rodman | 11.0

The biggest surprise for most fans will be Kevin McHale being 91st. I, too, think McHale was better than this and had him much higher on my top-75 list. But, a lot of the Lakers, Celtics and Knicks from the glory years received humbling treatment via GOAT Points. For instance, Dave DeBusschere, Earl Monroe and James Worthy also came way short of making the cut, with Monroe having 18 measly GOAT Points. Run back through the list of questions at the top, and I’m not sure this should be much of a surprise.

More interestingly, Walton ends up No. 78, which I think is at least in the right zip code, if not the exact street. Handling a short career with extreme peaks relative to the Gilmores and Malones was probably the biggest challenge of this exercise. I’m not sure GOAT Points did perfectly, but this is a respectable list.

Finally, this section gives us a good window into who’s on deck. Joel Embiid and Luka Doncic are already within spitting distance of the top 75; each will probably crack the list if I run it again after the 2021-22 season. Quietly, George isn’t too far away, either.

 

Thanks for posting @J.R. But Dream not in top 10/11? Blasphemy.

Also, Harden OVER Dream... I think most Rox fans would have an issue with that as well

Last point, Admiral over Dream?? I remember Dream sinking that ship

 

Results would be different and favor folks like Dream and Rodman if all-defense teams are considered also...

 

Someone had a Harden boner but that is ok.

It is subjective. They just looked at his stats in regular season mostly, pretty stats.

The Admiral to me is a more intelligent, more skilled Dwight Howard.

They prolly want to impale me now over in SA.

 

It is pretty disrespectful to call the last ones including Rodman 'Almost famous'.

Now another reason to discard this.

 

Where they ranked Dream by voter:
Aldridge - 10
Amick - 14
Batiste - 12
Creech - 10
Gonzalez - 11
Harper - 11
Hollinger - 11
Jason Jones - 18
Maillet - 9
Moyal - 10
Murray - 12
Peters - 12
Salaam - 12
Sayles - 10
Vardon - 14


https://theathletic.com/3136881/202...ics-panels-ballots-for-best-all-time-players/

 

Reading those articles about the 80s, Akeem's teams lost a lot of time with drug problems.

And Ralph Sampson's career not being blessed enough.

 

This illustrates quite well why I'm OK with Dream being at 11 (or at least 10 over Kobe). Peak V Peak I easily have Dream in the top 5. At his best, he could hang with anyone in history. But at some point in the Goat conversation, it becomes about accumulation of accolades and Dream falls a bit short there. His true peak wasn't as long as we would've liked it to be. And still it's telling how almost all subjective lists have him higher than an objective one like this would. The real ones all acknowledge how amazing peak Hakeem was and that stats don't tell the whole story. It's just that once you get to that hallowed ground up top you need to have both peak and accumulation. If they list him in the top 12, I'm content. If they have him over Shaq, Kobe, Big O, KD, etc., then I'm happy.

 

It is convenient that this 'objective' lists is based on subjectivity such as all-star and MVP votes... while also ignoring items such as ROY vote shares, defensive team selections, and the problematic comeback player of the year. Plus, playoffs were shorter back in the day.

(Didn't realize how ridiculous the 6th man of the year race was back in 1984-1985: 1) McHale, 2) Drexler)

 

It's definitely not a perfect metric, but unfortunately, there just isn't one. They gave it a shot and it's at least something indicative of the milestones that great players achieve. Extra points for not just falling into the "riiingzzz" trap. If the one who devised this algorithm did have an agenda though, I 100% assure you it wasn't to make Hakeem particularly look bad. There are bigger fish to fry. One interesting thing though is that this equation is from the Athletic and has Hakeem at 18 while their own list has him at 11. Like I said, that's clear acknowledgment that his impact goes beyond statistics.