The team did not have as many holes as we do, especially not at the position that is enabling Allen to thrive. Again, feel free to visit one of the threads crying about us passing on Mobley. You can get a full tutorial on what their roster has that ours doesn't, that is enabling bigs that can't create their own offense to excel.
No excuse. We know the lotto results and which slots (and combo of balls/numbers) woulda helped us keep our pick or lose it.
Same coin flip that Cavs got last draft. WITH all their better talent AND Jarrett Allen. Same JA that is an All Star now. And FYI, Prince was also used to acquire Rubio, another CF favorite. Prince netted Cavs Rubio + SRP + cash considerations. And we all know that choosing Dipo over LeVert cost the Rockets a FRP. Stone seriously F'ed himself in the ass on Harden trade. I do not believe taking the players in Nets trade would have cost Rockets Jaygup, but even if so, he is not worth a young All Star big, FRP, Rubio, SRP, cash AND all the Nets FRP and swaps. It was a shyte trade. Period.
They sure did. The only thing anyone on the cavs proved was they could lead a team to 20 wins for 3 seasons. And they that were in store for another bad year I couldn’t careless about threads talking about Mobley. As if cf’s isn’t littered with horrible tales on a regular basis by the majority. You can find threads crying about green. So what
If they were willing to re-sign him, or someone wanted to S&T for him. In the meantime, we know pretty conclusively that (1) it wouldn't have worked with CWood - not because of JA, but because of CWood (2) The Rockets did/do not have the team around JA like the Cavs currently do... which doesn't mean JA isn't a big/one of the biggest parts of that, just that it's a whole team game, and the whole team, coaching, chemistry all matters. Long story short, again, at the moment he's Clint Capela's best year. Which was a VERY solid player. But even if I go back to pre-trade and said do you want this Clint Capela max player that is a RFA who will want a lot of money, I don't think anyone would be that interested, imo
An asset is an asset, and we would have gotten more by trading him than Oladipo even if we did not resign him. I am not advocating that they keep him long term, I am just saying they let the most valuable asset go in the trade, nothing more nothing less. I think you undervalue what Capela does for a team and I think JA is a notch above Capela, there is a reason Capela resigned for more than 20 million per.
Right, but a RFA with half a season left isn’t a terribly valuable asset. Moreso than Dipo? Sure, but not a lot.
It's still more than Dipo no matter how much, and doesn't that team get his RFA rights? Which means they have him for at least a year and a half. Even if he is a UFA teams will trade more for him than Dipo which is all that matters.
Thats what I said, it’s just marginally better than Dipo. It’s a bigger deal if you had wanted to sign Allen, which Tilly wasn’t going to do. Otherwise we missed out on a slightly better asset in the margins.
Yeah, i'm not undervaluing them as a player overall... JUST relative to the overall plan. JA is great for the Cavs. He'd be amazing on the Nets, or a number of teams. Is he what the Rockets then and now needed? Don't get me wrong, you ALWAYS want good players, cause assets are assets. Right now clearly, JA >> CWood, KPJ, Green, etc... But hindsight is hindsight. He was a lesser asset at that time, he was part of the move, indirectly that resulted in KPJ coming to, and i think the Bucks 2022 pick... which they then turned around and traded back to the Bucks when they traded Tucker to them, in return getting their unprotected 2023 pick. (which also gave them one of their early 20s picks last year). They had to do the 22 for 23 swap if they wanted the 21 pick given the Stepian rule; Bucks are currently the 7th worst team, kind of having a meh'ish year but still great... suspect they will be in the same range next year, so absent catastrophic injury - feel bad rooting for it, but a Giannis season ender next year woudl be great for the Rockets pick - it is likely to be a early/mid 20's pick. On the whole, its ABSOLUTELY fair to say Stone hasn't dominated trades. I am very fine with the overall ideas everywhere. Nets over Sixers fine and made sense. JG over Mobley, even though it seems wrong now, fine and made sense... and honestly the bigger question to me woudl be JG over Barnes, or JG over Giddy (of course i was NOT super high on Giddy, but im not paid the big bucks, clearly now it seems like a trade back with OKC whereby they gave us back one of our picks owed to them or something like that which would have allowed them to likely take Mobley and Giddy would have still been available for sure at that slot would have been great).... but again, HINDSIGHT. Its certainly fair to say should have kept LeVert + Allen over Oladipo + Bucks 23 pick. Oladipo effectively turned into NOTHING. JA is clearly great and will almost assuredly be better than the Bucks 23 pick (even though you never know... hey, it is unprotected!! lol). He clearly messed that up, and given LeVert's injury history, how bad the Rockets were anyway last year and that JA didn't turn the Cavs around last year either, they could have kept and then moved those guys later and done better, for sure, while still sucking enough to keep their top 4 pick (although this is just a guess, if LeVert + Allen take them out of that spot, even if JG never gets better than he is now - which, c'mon - it still would have been a horrible move). Which doesn't even get into the fact that CWood and EG are still on this team... Stone is not hitting 100% or 75% or even 60%. I think its fair to say... he's doing better than some alternatives.. look at the Blazers currently. But that's a LOW bar. He's on the hot seat for me. But i still 100% absolutely see the plan, and at least understand all the rationale behind the moves. That they haven't worked out perfectly are less because they were stupid moves upfront and more because he wasn't perfect. DM chose Dwight at a period where his health was slowly starting to fail and more importantly when players like Dwight were becoming much less useful (unless he had an attitude change)... and i get the "add star at all cost" approach, but that was a HUGE HUGE decision that ultimately just turned out to be the wrong choice, even though it made 1,000% sense at the time. Dwight's 2nd choice, by all accounts, was the Warriors. To me, Dwight on the Warriors prevents the Warriors from becoming the Warriors... not because Kerr couldn't find a fit, but because Dwight demanded the touches, etc, in the way he wanted them which would have prevented Kerr from implementing that fit. DM chose Morris over Kawhi. DM failed to make deadline deals year after year. Few GMs are perfect. Ainge was on that road and still blew it. But Stone is on my hot seat.
Anything inside the lottery would be a blessing. Just hoping KD and Simmons take their time before they are game ready. End of March would be nice. Part time Kyrie, on his own, is not leading the Nets to the playoffs.
Your conclusion is BS. How can you know that Wood and JA could not work? Let alone conclusively? You'd have a better argument stating that SILAS could not make Wood-JA combo work. But even then, there is zero way to prove that, let alone conclusively.
Morey coveted JA prior to the bubble. Rockets analytics team fully vetted JA and concluded that his upside was worth trading for. Saying JA was a lesser asset is wrong, it just keeps pushing the narrative that Stone did not mismanage the Harden trade. We already know that Stone will make decisions contrary to his personnel evaluators who are more qualified than he is.
@D-rock I try not to enter this thread too often. It is as upsetting as watching the last Jazz game. It is painful to think we could have had LaVert ,Allen, and Prince instead of Oladipo and a low pick. The only gain we got out of that was the cap space. If we land a max player or two in 2023 maybe it was worth it. But man, that was a lot of talent to let slip through the fingers. Not to mention there were reports a few months before the trade of Dinwiddie included as well. Here is to hoping the play to get a few high level lottery picks and a max player or two works out. We are all well too aware how painful the past few seasons have been with this strategy of 2023.
