Good case study: Tyler Herro scores 20.1 points on 17.4 shots and 1.15 Points Per Shot (along with some average defense) in his 3rd season with the Miami Heat. He's considered to have turned the corner and may receive a max offer from a desperate team. 4 assists to 2.8 TO's. 4.8 rebounds at 6'5. He's 22, which is exactly how old Jalen will be in his 3rd season. Jalen Green is scoring 14.4 points on 12.6 shots and 1.14 Points Per Shot (with some horrible but improving defense) in his first 38 games as a 19 year old. Gets 3 rebounds and 2 assists. The biggest difference between these guys is going to be that Jalen is going to the line more in his first few dozen games than Herro has ever done in a season. Green is really developing fast at this, probably still leading all rookies. I'll take any guy who leads his draft class in FTA. Green is more athletic and I think he has the tools to be a better defender while having a similar motor to Herro. If Green just improves at the pace he's been improving (i.e. a small jump every 20 games) he is going to catch up pretty quickly. Once Green becomes a passable shooter, his game will really fall into place. It's impossible to escape it right now because he is rarely stronger than his opponent, so having his opponent drop back when he has the ball really throws a wrench in everything he wants to do both scoring and kicking out to shooters, leaves everyone else tightly guarded. Westbrook syndrome unfortunately. I don't think Herro is a particularly high bar to clear, not a big fan personally, but just interesting that Herro is seen so positively here when it's a career that Green can easily match even if you consider his first 30 whatever games disappointing. I don't think Herro will improve at getting to the line faster than Green will improve his 3pt shot. Call me crazy. I'm going to judge Green in earnest after the ASB, that will really tell me what we've done with him this season and what he can do next season. Will be interesting to see his marketing potential at the All Star game and dunk contest too.
Correlation holds for deep drafts, too. 1996, maybe the deepest draft ever, with 3 MVPs is a prime example. The top pick Star wins ROY (Iverson), the late bloomers (Kobe, Nash, Ray Allen) are later picks.
12 points in 3 quarters projects to 16 points for the game. That with 0 points from the 3 point line is not terrible. He has to get stronger so some of those drives that result in blocks result in dunks (I think he can add about 4 points a game atleast with that). He also needs to continue working on his jumper, a slight improvement could result in atleat 1 additional 3 pointer made per game. Conservatively that would add about 7 points to his scoring average.
Motor and work ethic are 2 different pair of shoes to me. Motor is about in game performance and consistency. I also do not like Herro that much, he had a nice bubble experience, that is all. To me, Herro is just a big pants player whose stats wouldn't be that impressive in the regular season. The Heat are a Top 6 franchise for years now and so much better than the Rockets in terms of management, Herro will continue to get better opportunities than Green on the biggest stages.
Meh. Jalen will be fine, we won for 20 straight years, we'll win more this time around. He'll create plenty of big stages, won't need the team to create it.
Harden would have made the Finals more than once if it was an individual 1 on 1 contest. It's a team sport after all. People make all sorts of blind comments, I am glad I already have that optimism and do not need to compensate it with Green and basketball.
For me, Jalen Green's biggest hurdle will be on the mental side of things. He has all the tools. He just needs to know himself and not do things that he can't. He also needs to believe that he can do what he can. He's a scorer first, defender 2nd and a PG last. I hope he can think like KB/MJ/AI. Just take it to the hoop.
I’m sure other teams’ fans are completely different, and never b**** about their shtty players. I’m sure Lakers fans are treating Westbrook with utmost respect and dignity, right?
Turns out Jalen Green cultists believe that the only way to be a good Rockets fan is to embarrassingly simp for Jalen Green while either ignoring all of his flaws or blaming them on anyone and everyone associated with the Rockets franchise that isn't Jalen Green. Jalen Green turns it over by making the most pathetic attempt at an entry pass I've ever seen? Clearly Wood's fault. Jalen Green shoots 29% from 3? It's Silas' fault for not getting him enough shots....or KPJ's fault, somehow. Multiple metrics list Jalen Green as the worst player in the league? Clearly that's the fault of Rockets fans for not simping hard enough. The dear leader is not to be questioned by mere mortals.
Westbrook has been in the league for how many years now? Some fans just seem to take pleasure in watching their players struggle. Some fans are just negative and like to see their team struggle so they can say "see". Some fans are optimists. Me, I know Green is disappointing but I'm still going to root for his development and not be some cry baby pee pants over it.
I’m genuinely curious where’s this coming from, what is this unhealthy infatuation with this kid? Like… we have a very vocal contingent of Wood "haters" here. Who, with all his worts, for better or worse is our best player, but whatever, some people don’t like him. What we don’t have is a Wood-defense strike-force to whine, outrage, attack anytime a negative Wood comment is posted. Why is that?
I think the vast majority of the most delusional cultists exist for the same reason the most delusional Lin fans existed. Their support is based on non-basketball reasons. I think there's also some that simply bought into the "he's the next Kobe" narrative, and they don't have it in them to admit that they got duped. The two groups play off of one another and whip up the religious fervor of the cultists.
I so want to do that, but he frustrates me, and I have a friggen craw about him being taken too early.......number 2 picks should not be this far from being a good NBA player..... I am not saying he is a bust, but for me, this season has been busty.......I mean, I can't believe how poor he is at fundamentals, and I hate....HATE ....HATE guys who get by on athleticism, because they so rarely develop, and when their athleticism dies, their career goes with it. That doesn't mean Green can't learn how to dribble, pass, play defense, or move off the ball, but it is going to take a TON of work to get there.... And, I have serious doubts about it ever happening. So, yes, rooting for him for sure, but very disappointed we missed out on Mobley...that gets GM's fired. DD
Because just like to some of us might be extra frustrated and critical of JG because of disappointment of picking him over the obvious better player in Mobley, the ones that wanted him are going to be extra tolerant and patient in holding out hope that he will special. Then there is the Filipino contingent on top of that, who are just proud that one of their boys is making it big (I'm puertorican, and we did it with Jose Piculin Ortiz...). I'm sure there are other reasons in between, like fans that had no emotional stake in the draft, and just might be innately either more critical or tolerant, but I'd guess the majority of the most vocal ppl here fall in the "camps" I outlined above.
I think there's a difference between being critical of players in their rookie seasons vs players who have been in the league since '08 (westbrook) vs players who have been in and out of the league (Wood).
It depends on what the conversation is. If you are talking about what the player currently is, there's no difference whatsoever. If you're talking about what the player might be one day, sure, there's a difference. Saying that a player is garbage right now is not the same as saying they'll always be garbage. Currently Jalen Green is the most detrimental player to the Rockets when he's on the court and he's one of the worst in the league....those are just facts. That doesn't mean that he can't one day improve.
bad comparison - if you want to compare Green to other players, compare him to other #2 picks that have come out in recent years. IIRC, Ingram and Russell didn't exactly light it up their rookie seasons either.
Are you comparing a rookie who has played half of a season and has shown signs of some improvement to a 14-year player who have been playing worse and worse? Are you comparing a rebuilding team to a team that is supposed to be contending a championship but is having a sub-.500 record?
