What will it take to make you seriously consider an EV?

“But what about Europe”



Competition heating up in the UK though!

 

Random question, but did Tesla release a new model or did prices drop? I keep seeing sales graphs being posted, but no information that would make someone consider an EV that hasn't already.

 

If you were stupid or blind enough to be considering anything other than the best EV on the market crushing all the so called competition, nothing posted on here was likely to change your mind anyways.

 

Tesla has had a backlog of customers for a long time, so their sales growth has come from largely being able to manufacture more cars. Once Tesla introduced the Model 3, they became affordable for most households, and they have been around long enough that people know they aren't going anywhere. I always believed in Tesla, but didn't have faith in Elon Musk.

 

Got it backwards. Everyone and their mother is trying to make an EV now, the reason why there is no real competition yet is because there is only one Elon.

 

So is it stupidity or blindness that led me to snag a competitor's model that actually fits in my tiny urban garage (and hundreds of other urban parking spots)? Probably both, right?

 

Considering the model 3 is a decidedly average sized sedan that fits in most any parking space, I’m going with blind.

 

You can call me stupid and blind but I would buy a Porsche Taycan before I buy a comparably priced Tesla today..
I don’t care for driving an EV that much to fit in with the Tesla crowd. Plenty of amazing cars out there…
I don’t care what powers it.

I can’t be the only one who feels this way.

 

I worry about the long term costs of electric ownership. From what I read, old Teslas are falling apart.

 

Imagine buying the original iPhone and claiming all features Android introduce weren't any good because Apple sold more phones than anyone else.

 

I have been driving Plug in Hybrids. If you are not ready for full EV, your best bet right now is a Toyota RAV4 Plug in Hybrid with has a 40+ miles electric range before using gas. If you can find one.

However with the inflated prices due to shortage, it is not smart to buy a non EV right now.

I locked in prices with orders for Model 3, Y, and Cybertruck. Selling/trading my other cars while getting top trade in/cash value with the car shortage. Teslas hold their value really nicely. I would rather put my money on a Tesla than any other car right now.

Tesla still has upper hand when it comes to charge network, range, battery, and software, all the big items for EV.

The only other EV, IMO, which comes close to competition, is the Hyundai Ionic 5. Dealers are asking for 5-10k over MSRP which offsets the federal and state rebates. However there are some dealers that are willing to go for MSRP.

I like everything about the Ionic 5 except the range on the AWD model. It has features such as V2L, live blind spot camera on dash, augmented HUD, birds eye view etc that Tesla does not offer. It even charges faster than Tesla (10-80% in 18 mins).

Nissan blew it with the Ariya. It is gimped. Looks like Toyota is going to be underwhelming as well. ID4 is a disappointment. Mustang Mach E is meh.

 

We need right to repair on these new electric vehicles. It’s one of the reasons I wouldn’t buy one yet. If I need a new $30,000 motor because a $10 part in it failed a year after the warranty expired there is something seriously wrong with that.

 

This is because you don’t actually have the money to afford a Porsche Taycan, so it is easy to say that. If you did, and you actually were seriously cross shopping it, you may think differently. Or you may just be one of those “never-tesla” people who would rather pay double the price to get half the performance and range. But that would indeed be stupid. I do like the way the Taycan looks though, best looking EV on the market. But when it comes to technology, performance and price, the market has already shown there are few fools who would pick one over the other.

 

You read about 1 YouTuber who blows stuff up for his YouTube channel who blew up his a tesla for publicity.

In general the Total Cost of ownership for Teslas is one of the top selling points, the amount you save on fuel and service.

 

Lemme know when the Android of EVs come out.

 

https://electrek.co/2021/09/13/tesla-battery-pack-replacement-repair/

https://provscons.com/teslas-body-d...ime-is-insane-it-needs-to-be-fixed-reference/

https://www.businessinsider.com/old...es-charging-screen-not-working-memory-2019-10

This isn't to say Teslas are uniquely bad. Most cars have quality issues. But if I paid $100k for a car, I would want it to be high quality.

 

The Hyndai Kona is also nice in terms of value for range. Hyndai is on the right track with their evs. Volkswagen is doing well in Europe with their ID.4 but not as much traction in the US. I also think the Taycan is a nice car but just way overpriced.

But come on, these are nice evs, but a Tesla is still a Tesla. People are still delusionally thinking there's some EV revolution when it is (so far) still just a Tesla revolution. People want Teslas, it's not about what kind of propulsion system. Most of these other EVs that are selling in bulk like the id4 in EU and the Wuling mini in China is due to heavy subsidies that Tesla doesn't even qualify for. I can't imagine what's going to happen to the demand for Tesla in the US next year when they get the $8k rebate again. Eventually Tesla will drag the industry kicking and screaming with it, when competitive evs will all take off, but by then Tesla will be far and away one of the largest companies in history already.

 

That first article was debunked, that $5k fix by rich rebuild is not going to last and may be dangerous, which is exactly why Tesla does not offer right to repair to answer another poster, safety and liability. The EV industry is not yet mature and neither is the third party repair. Tesla is fully vertically integrated and invented most of the tech they use in their cars, if a third party goes on to poke around and it ends up becoming a safety issue it turns into a Tesla issue and national news like every little thing. Like the two Texas autopilot deaths that became national news which turned out to have nothing to do with autopilot. Or a routine recall for a trunk harness (lol) that somehow became national news last week.

As for costs, having your entire battery brick like in the first article is not at all common. And yes repairs for the Model S and x are expensive out of warranty because they are $100k cars. No $100k car on the planet has cheap repairs. 95% of the new Teslas sold today are the cheaper model 3 and y, which as I said, the total cost of ownership including fuel and service is one of the selling points, in addition to tech and performance.

The one very real issue in those articles is the repair time, which is due to the explosive growth of the demand of their cars and service departments not being able to catch up. That should alleviate as the company matures and sales growth slows down a bit (87% this year).

 

Serious question; If you continuously bet against a company by placing shorts and lost, would you ever buy their product?

 

I already said Tesla is still the one to get as far as EV is concerned and gave the reasons why, which is also why I have three different models on order.

IMO, Ionic 5 is its first "competitor" as far as tech is concerned (loses in some areas but wins in some), and I am seriously considering it. The sacrifice in range might be too much for me though. However, the nicer interior and more comfortable ride is tempting.

For those who might be considering Ionic 5 vs Model 3 or Y, I will list the pros for each below based on my research. I am not a Tesla fanboi so I have done my homework objectively. Comparing top of the line Ionic 5 AWD model to Long Range Model 3 AWD and Long Range Model Y AWD for somewhat Apples to Apples comparison.


Tesla Pros:

• Longer Range (Considering yo should not charge your battery past 90% and you are not going to let it drop to 10%, you have about 70-80% of usable charge and this drops by another 15-20% in colder climate). Range is KING when it comes to EV
• Better charging network
  
• Better on the air updates (Ionic 5 will supposedly also have this but we will see. Tesla has been doing this for a while)
• Better battery tech (This year the 3 and Y will be getting newer and even better batteries)
  
• Faster screen response time (Even faster with AMD Ryzen chips which are going in on this years models)
  
• Better performance
• Better autonomous driving tech
  
• Entry by phone/card
  
• On board security camera (driving and sentry)
  
• Better resale value (Tesla holds its value amazingly well, Hyundai not so much. Lots of demand for Tesla)
  
• More spacious front and back trunk (Model Y is considerable more spacious, Even Model 3's trunk is more spacious than Ionic 5.)
  
• Better sound quality (Ionic Bose system is mediocre at best. Kia EV6 meridian sound system is excellent)
  
• More established production, most issues ironed out (Ionic being first year models, will have its share of issues. 12V battery issue is already common for example)
  
• Better live traffic info on screen
  
• Media access on screen (Netflix Hulu etc, although do have to pay $10 per month)
  
• High Safety scores
• Better remote functions and accessibility to feature

Hyundai Ionic 5 or Kia EV6 Pros (Very similar cars built on same platform and tech):

• As of right now $7500 federal Tax rebate which Tesla does not quality for (could change if BBB passes). Good if you can find one at MSRP and without dealer markup of $5-10k
  
• Model 3 is slightly cheaper than Ionic 5 but Ionic 5 is cheaper than Model Y
  
• More comfortable ride, Tesla has a stiff suspension and a rougher ride
  
• Quieter cabin and more refined cabin (Tesla has quality issues, not major but certainly questionable for a 50k+ car)
  
• Multiple settings for regenerative braking (Tesla does not have this. Its preferable not to have regenerative braking in snow and ice. Tesla does not let you reduce or disable it)
  
• Android auto and Apple Carplay
  
• V2L
  
• HUD with augmented reality
  
• Live lane changing blind spot monitoring on the dash
  
• Bird's Eye View of the car and its surrounding
  
• Slightly faster super charging (But not as readily accessible to the fast chargers as the Tesla ones). PS. Better to do Level 2 home charging most of the time and fast charge only when you need it. Supercharging reduces the long term charge capacity of the battery
  
• Full reclining front seat with foot rest
  
• Sliding middle compartment for extra room up front
  
• Sliding and adjustable reclining back seats
  
• Should be better maintenance and warranty service since you can take it to the dealer (Tesla process can be a difficult and annoying when it comes to this)