Jalen Green has played 20 games so far, here is a look at his first 10 games vs. his last 10 games

You also can't win usually with a skinny 6'3 shooting guard, what's your point?

You have to have multiple high-level guys to win a championship and you can win with Mobley being one of those guys easier than Green because he does so much on the defensive end and can score from all 3 levels.

 

#1 Just so we're clear youre saying every newly acquired player has to get lots of minutes and its mandated by the GM. The coaches cant decide that the person can just come off the bench and play just a few minutes depending on team needs? All you have to do is look at the league and you can tell that is complete and utter BS. Teams do what they do based on need and how a team plays with certain lineups not on if someone is newly acquire UNLESS they are a star not Daniel freakin Theis.

#2 I never said Green couldnt handle a lineup of Sengun and Wood, Theis and Wood have been atrocious together and for the billionth time you coud tell in preseason it wasnt gonna work. Theis just ended up taking a lot of long range 2's or 3's or clogging the paint. We've barely seen Wood with Sengun together as far as spacing with Green and ive been saying they should start together since the beginning of the season.

#3 From the first post that you responded to it says that Theis should come off the bench. You confused yourself adding that I said Wood and Sengun couldnt start together because of Green.

#4 I never said DNP for theis even in the first post you responded to I said he should come off the bench. Though I personally dont mind a Theis DNP while staggering Sengun and Wood minutes allowing for more minutes for Martin and Tate.

Just for reference this is the first post you responded to

 

Thank you, this is helpful, now we're getting somewhere. For #1 I think that's a little overstated, I don't know that I would call it a mandate and I don't think it means he has to start but I do think it means he has to get significant playing time. I'm purely thinking of it from an employee/employer standpoint, going in to my boss's office and telling him he's wrong on a new hire (that he handpicked) before even giving him a chance, it's a tough sell, and an uncomfortable position.

I'd say the main source of my confusion here was regarding Wood/Sengun lineups - they actually have played together quite a bit, with Green on the court, and it's been a disaster. They have different problems than Wood/Theis, but it really just has not worked at all, to the detriment of both Jalen and Sengun. So I assumed (here I am assuming again) that if you were against Wood/Theis, that you were also against Wood/Sengun, and against double big lineups in general. If you think Wood Sengun and Green can all play together, then it all makes sense now, and I understand what you're saying.

And for the record I do think DNPs for Theis is the right call. I just think Silas was in a really tough spot with this roster and had to wait until he had some definitive data to make the switch. It's a lot easier to tell your boss "look, I can't play this guy, he sucks, here's the proof" rather than saying you think he's wrong without giving the guy a chance.

 

Any thread that attracts the Jalen haters usually does.

 

Its still just the same circular argument by you. Saying we are getting somewhere but just repeating the same lies. Its just a flat out lie. Again he couldve not started Theis and still given him minutes. Again I only said he shouldnt start not "he should not get any minutes" at the beginning of the season so you are still wrong there. Please show me the exact amount of minutes that Theis and Wood have played together vs Wood and Sengun its a small sample size in comparison. Finally again it is a flat out lie to say that a guy who was just aquired has to play significant minutes. There are a multitude of players signed around the league all the time who dont get significant minutes that statement by you is purely made up and only done so to help Silas save face. Basically the 20 game stretch where they started Theis I think that shouldve been Sengun and THEIS WOULDVE STILL GOTTEN MINUTES OFF THE BENCH. If your GM is not mature enough to understand the reasoning then he's no GM I want. Stone doesnt strike me as that petty or stupid and I hate that we have to assume that he is to help Silas save face.

 

They were not the alpha guys on championship teams. They were on perennial lottery or first round exit teams until they teamed up with LeBron or Pierce/Allen.

Great players sure but not lead you to a chip players. Don’t like help ok call them sidekicks or Robins or whatever. Point still stands that Green’s ceiling is a lead you to a chip player while Mobley’s ceiling is the sidekick to that type.

 

Right if Green is a hit he's Kobe if Mobley is a hit hes what Chris Bosh? You gotta swing for the fences.

 

true but we're not here to win. we're here for fun entertaining basketball

#tillmenlives
#2022goals

 

I said we're getting somewhere because you finally have partially answered my question and explained what you want. I'm still not totally clear, but at least now I know that you want Theis not starting, and you are okay with Sengun and Wood playing at the same time. And what exactly am I "flat out" lying about? I'm also not sure what you mean about me being wrong, wrong about what? I know you didn't say Theis should get 0 minutes.

II find it a bit odd that you think Wood/Theis is unplayable but you're fine with Wood/Sengun. To answer your question about the minutes, Wood/Theis have played 330 minutes together with a -21.2 net rating, Wood/Sengun have played 196 minutes with a -13.7 net rating. I don't know if you consider that too small of a sample size. In my opinion the problem here is that none of these guys can play the 4. So I think any combination of these three is just going to be a bad lineup.

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what you think works and doesn't work. You said Theis should not be starting, and he doesn't work with Wood, so I think that means you don't want them to share the court at all(correct me if I'm wrong). So Theis comes off the bench, but he can only come in the game when Wood sits. Do you think Theis can play with Sengun? I personally don't think this is a playable lineup but I don't want to assume this is what you think. But if Theis can't play with Sengun, and he can't play with Wood, that means he can only play with those two are both on the bench and he's the lone big on the court, and it also means that Sengun's minutes as the lone big on the court are very close to 0.

The reason I keep asking for all these specifics is because I can't really picture a minutes distribution that fits what you're asking for. I'm trying to clarify what it is you want. Posters on here have occasionally had a list of requirements for how they want minutes to go that is not actually mathematically possible.

 

Green is solid and improving

 

KPJs decision making is horrible. 6th man at best.

 

Im not reading this im done youre going on ignore im done. Ive had enough.

 

Good thing you dun have to respond.

Advanced stats and better playmaking responded for you. He is also ahead of Green in PER.

Here is not to say Green cannot improve.

Raw scoring numbers only tell you one story and you can look it up whether a team with Alperen wins more than a Green team without Alperen.

 

Hitting at #2 has a range of subjective qualities. Kobe is arguably the 2nd greatest SG of all time. I would say getting the next Kobe at #2 after only one season of sucking isn’t a hit… it’s a planet smashing comet. Would him being comparable to Kerry Kittles be a hit? What about Jeff Hornacek? Or maybe even Bradley Beal?

I think the first measure of success in the lottery is “is he a for sure starter on a contender?”… I think by that measure I’ve seen enough to say yes… I think if he’s healthy and his defense improves he’s a starter. He’s not Anthony Bennett or Darko at this point where that’s not a given.

I honestly think the decision came down to Stone having more data and better workouts from Green to know with more certainty that he’d at least be a starter in the NBA so as a first time GM he just took the player that he simply knew wouldn’t get him fired. It might just be that simple.

 

It has to be workouts because his Ignite stats were small sample sized and he only shot '36% from 3'.

It was nothing eye popping.

I recall during the Morey era that he had a board of draft prospects and have them listed, I think some people in the war room had a vote but ultimately it fell to Morey to take the pick.

It would be interesting to know if there is some polling going on before drafts.

 

Whatever their process was, I just hope that Stone learned from it that he needs to be a bit more thorough this year. It’s not a fireable offense at this point to have taken Green over Mobley, but you shouldn’t get too many years as the GM if you have better talents overlooked. So we’ll see what he does this Summer… and maybe more importantly this trade deadline where he needs to be getting hauls for our vets.

Pretty funny though how obvious it is when they want to trade someone. Nwaba has no business starting in the NBA as likable as he is as an underdog blue collar type player. When I saw he was starting over Tate I knew immediately Stone had a mandate to try and fool the league. Sorry Stone… nobody is giving you 2nd round picks for David Nwaba. Also if there have been 1st round picks available for Gordon and he’s gotten greedy trying to wait, and EG gets injured I think THAT is a fireable offense. Why the F is he still on this team??

Anyways, as you can tell, I’m not exactly sold on Stone yet. Guy seems way too sure of himself. Dude you’ve proven nothing so far.

 

I also found it funny that Stone tried to balance out the lack of defense with defensive guys that have little Offense.

It is an old dilemma going on for years now.

 

Yeah… maybe you just need better players in general dude. We aren’t really in the position to be worrying about Chuck Hayes type of specialists. You don’t need to waste roster spots and cap space on David Nwaba.

 

Not sure where some guys get some of these notions from. You do the best you can, thats it. Jalens mechanics show he could be an offensive superstar in the right offensive system pretty early. That combined with freakish athleticism gives you a lethal guard in the future hopefully. But theres no guarantee. No one can predict the future. I had one guy here tell me there were no stars in this draft just a few months ago and now he's rollin around here saying we shoulve gotten Mobley lol. And I'll say to you what I said to him. No one knows the future they are just hoping they are right. Otherwise there wouldnt be such a thing as a redraft. Kawhi Leonard would have been a #1 pick and indiana would have kept him, if it was just that easy to tell the future. Morey woulda took Leonard at 13 instead of taking Morris. No one knows. Mobley looks good now but even the people who thought he would be good were just guessing, and they could still be wrong. No one knows how its gonna turn out. Its still early we dont even know if he'll be an all star.

I posted earlier that Harden, Derozan and other stars in the 2009 draft werent even top 5 in ROY voting that year. Harden turns out to be a top 25 player all time player and the ROY that year Tyreke Evans who looked like a future star where is he now? Steph Curry the greatest shooter ever finished second in voting behind Evans. All those experts said Evans was better than Steph after seeing them both play for a year and at the time he probably was. You see my point? This year has no bearing really on the future we have no idea whats gonna happen or who is gonna be who. You just do the best you can. So you cant blame Stone if Jalen doesnt pan out because they are all just educated guesses anyway.

 

I actually agree with this. My statement that Stone can learn from this isn’t saying in the long run Green might be the better player as you noted. Health is a factor too that plays a huge role. I do think that there are still lessons though. Jalens shooting motion being one and his defense translating in the nba. See Markel Fultz too as a worst case example of GM’s missing major development needed that would likely push a player like that back.

Even after just a couple months it’s clear to me that some scouting was missed, but it’s not a reason to freak cause we really just don’t know and it is just a guess in so many ways. That’s why this is supposed to be a multi year process and should not be short changed by ownership and certainly not the fans who still have to make it shown to a scared owner that they are engaged and “trust the process.”