barber dog, A business man like Les will not view a 2yr $5m contract any differently that a 1yr $10m contract. eh? Yet, a general manager must definitely will view the two differently. One allows Dream to close out with great respect and honorable pay at the same time that Walt closes out for a huge cap windfall, the other forces you to negotiate with a 16-yr veteran like he is another team's free agent or something. $10m is $10m...Dream will take $10m. We however, don't want to sign a 2yr commitment with him...he is too old for that. If he rocks, we sign him again for $4m or something. If not, we have a huge cap windfall again next year.
Even the greatest Celtic team of all time had great players on it. Dennis Johnson their starting point guard actually won his first championship ring under Linny Wilkens when he was with the Seatle Supersonics. Bill Walton won his first rings with the Portland Trailblazers. Edited to correct a typo that had Dennis Johnson as a center. Thanks to HayeStreet for cathing it ------------------ [This message has been edited by crash5179 (edited July 06, 2001).]
Your post is true enough. I just hate the thought of not having a fast break because our guards are doing all of the rebounding. ------------------
I think the real question goes back to Jeff's first post. In an imaginary scenario, who is willing to trade Dream and Mo T straight up for Webber. I mean if we can sign Webber and keep SA, Mooch and Bull then it'd be just like that trade went down. I would do that trade at this point. Would you? Webber is not worth all our FA's but retain those role players and we're a much better team than before. As for the 5 spot, hell some teams play well with no 5 (Jordan's Bulls). If we get rebounding at the 4 (at least 10 boards a game), then I'll take Cato at the 5. ------------------ Mr. President. No man thinks more highly than I of three legged cows. They deserve to live. On my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of reason. Cows with three legs are good. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth : three-legged cows are better. They are better because the meat on them is better. The steaks are more tender. Three-legged cows tend not to wander as much. These cows could be the symbol of our country. The world would look upon us with great respect. They will want our cows and pay good money for them. The cows could symbolize freedom and hard work and three legs are better than four. They are meant for us; they can be meant for no other.
crash, that is not the point. The point is to not spend money this year on Davis or Bo Outlaw if you don't land Webber. There will be a younger version of them next year, for sure. Plus, we are not just talking about FAs. Cap space is valuable for unbalanced trades as well.
Once again your post is true enough. And you have made a point that no one else has brought up...cap space for a trade. But we need some ideas as to who are target could be before we scratch the idea of bringing Webber in town. ------------------
Hey Crusty Pants, Who ever said a 2 year deal for 5 million a season? If the Rockets agreed to a 2 year deal, their would be a team option on the 2nd year. The problem is, that his agent is going to demand a multi-year deal with player options on those years. Fegan is going to try to milk the Rockets for every penny he can get. I am fascinated that you think Hakeem is worth 10 million dollars for one season? ------------------
I for one hope the Rocks are earnest about going after their own free agents. I get the feeling Webber is going to take a long time to make a decision and in that time we could lose out on some very good players. IMHO Moochi is a very important pience to this team. He provides high quality backup to Steve. Hell I think he is better than a lot of starting pgs. He proved his worth many times over last season. I would rather have him and Mo on the team rather than Webber. ------------------
Again, as this newbie crispee is trying to say. It's not "Mo and Hakeem" vs. "Webber". "Mo and Hakeem" creates a very large cap windfall for next year. It also gives you one more year to survey Cato. "Webber" means Cato better be useful now, or we're a donut. And CWebb was complaining Sacramento was soft? You want some names of free agent? Raef Lafrentz. Michael Olowokandi. Keon Clark. Others will be available through trade. Let's call it free agent dominoes-Toronto will be too busy with VC to worry about Keon Clark. Golden State will have to deal with Jamison and Hughes-they'd be begging us to take Dampier or Foyle off their hands to save some salary. Paul Pierce could cause a guy like Tony Battie to be available. And we'd be sitting pretty with upwards of 10 mill in cap space. ------------------ "I think alot of people find Cato's game to be very offensive." -aelliott, comparing the offensive skills of Kelvin Cato and Michael Olowokandi
My 2 cents on Webber: You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. A pre-July 18th converation: Rudy T: Welcome to Houston. CWebb: Great to be here. I think you have a very up and coming team...great draft. Ya'all have the right pieces, but are you doing anything about the center spot? I might have a real interest if you get that together. Rudy T: Well, as you already know we would have about $4M left for FA's if you signed with us. If you're sure you want to be here, we can offer that to Dream but I don't think he'll take it. Could you live with Nazr Mohammad or Marc Jackon? They're good role players and might sign for less than market to play on a contender. CWebb: I'll have to give that some thought. Rudy T: Well, the 2 other options are a S&T or a 3rd team interested in Cato or Walt. CWebb: I don't think the Kings have an interest in either...maybe Williams 'cause he has 1 year remaining...there is that Luxury Tax thing..I'm reluctant to push too hard, the Kings' management has been real good to me..you understand? Rudy T: Let me see what I can do to clear more cap room. If we can deal Cato, we'll have $ for you and Dream...Or if you think the Kings would take Walt and Kenny and a future 1st? CWebb: I'll ask 'em. Meantime, see about Dream or getting rid of Cato and get back to me. Dream laughs at $4m, Bulls laugh at Cato, Kings laugh at Walt and KT.....this is how the story ends unless Webber really wants to play in Houston! ------------------ Raef to Rocks in '01-'02! [This message has been edited by GATER (edited July 06, 2001).]
I think we should resign all our own free agents especially Hakeem and let Francis and Griffin grow over the next few seasons by getting some playoff experience. I think they should have a real good shot at getting into the playoffs this coming season and they can learn from one of the greatest post season performers in the history of the game in Hakeem . Save as much cap space as possible over the next 2 years and go after a Tim Duncan who will probably opt out with the Spurs. Bottom line is this team needs postseason experience badly before we start thinking of being a contender. ------------------
I think webber is a good player but he is not the best player in the league and he will not bring us a championship. Usually the best players or the most clutch players in the league end up in the finals with a few exceptions. Lets recap the last 10 years 2001 - Shaq, Kobe, Iverson 2000 - Shaq, Reggie Miller 1999 - Duncan 1998 - Jordan, Malone 1997 - Jordan, Malone 1996 - Jordan, Payton, Kemp 1995 - Dream, Shaq, Penny 1994 - Dream, Patrick 1993 - Barkley, Jordan 1992 - Jordan, Drexler Back to my point, Webber has not shown he is either the best player in the league or a clutch player. He is one of the best power fowards in the league, but not even close to being the best. I would rather use our cap on Hakeem and Mo, and get someone next year or the following year like Duncan who we can argue is one of the best players in the league. And while we wait, we can give our young players the touches they need to develop into one of the best players in the league. I like Webber but he is not the answer for us. ------------------
Seems like a lot of silly arguments when the thread is just asking your opinion. I would be comfortable with brining on C-Webb even if it did mean losing Mo and Dream. Mo's unbelievable lack of mobility is going to be exposed by the zone next year. I predict that his offensive numbers will go down, not up. He might accidentally pick up one more board per game. Dream should retire a Rocket, but not at the expense of our future. For me, the only caveat to the deal is that we MUST wind up with a suitable replacement for Dream at center, which probably means Nazr, Miller, or Jackson. I CANNOT live with Cato as our starting center next year !! One nuance of the potential for landing C-Webb that has been glossed over in this thread will be his trade-ability in the coming years should this scenario not work out. I fully expect that the Lakers will have difficulty keeping Shaq and Kobe together, or at least with enough good role players to pick up their slack. If all is not cozy in 3-4 years, we could trade C-Webb and picks for either Shaq or Kobe. Don't forget that many of the "50 greatest players" have been traded at least once in their careers, and some way more often than that!! I would sign C-Webb now, partly because he give us a strong inside presence for years to come, and partly because he provides a kind of insurance against our current situation, "lack of trade bait". ------------------ Our purpose in life is to find our gift, and the meaning of life is to give it away!
First of all, Duncan's contract still has another 3 years on it so unless we want to sign him the summer before the new arena opens or SA wants to trade we're not getting him. There is no such impact big man in this league as of yet that will be available next season, unless on this board LaFrentz is considered to be like Shaq. How does Hakeem and Mo create a cap windfall for next year. ------------------ Mr. President. No man thinks more highly than I of three legged cows. They deserve to live. On my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of reason. Cows with three legs are good. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth : three-legged cows are better. They are better because the meat on them is better. The steaks are more tender. Three-legged cows tend not to wander as much. These cows could be the symbol of our country. The world would look upon us with great respect. They will want our cows and pay good money for them. The cows could symbolize freedom and hard work and three legs are better than four. They are meant for us; they can be meant for no other.
If I am not mistaken Duncan only has one more year left, if he desires. Duncan & Grant Hill signed three year deals, with player option on the third year. This means if San Antonio looses all of its key players by next summer, expect Duncan to bolt to greener pastures. With all the talk about cap space next year, remember if Hakeem's agent gets his 2 year deal for Dream, there wont be squat available next year for a marquee player. ------------------
Well then your Duncan scenario works out fine. Duncan option kicks in after the 02'03 season, not next summer but the one after that. ------------------ Mr. President. No man thinks more highly than I of three legged cows. They deserve to live. On my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of reason. Cows with three legs are good. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth : three-legged cows are better. They are better because the meat on them is better. The steaks are more tender. Three-legged cows tend not to wander as much. These cows could be the symbol of our country. The world would look upon us with great respect. They will want our cows and pay good money for them. The cows could symbolize freedom and hard work and three legs are better than four. They are meant for us; they can be meant for no other.
I'm not going to bother reading through this whole thread, because I have ONE simple question: Is it possible to sign Webber outright and still give Dream 4.5 million for two years? ------------------ Protrolls.com! "I want to be like Olajon." -Sagana Diop has the right idea... Keep the ???? alive!
BINGO, you are right, I checked, Duncan signed a 3 year deal, with player option on the 4th year. My mistake. Scratch him off your list, that gives the Rockets this summer and next summer to pull another rabit out of their hat. ------------------
There is no mid-level 4.5 mil exception. There is a 1 or so mil trade exception and another 1mil minimum execption but no 4.5 mil. If we trade Walt or Cato for future considerations then I believe we could sign Webber to 12mil next year and Dream to 3-4mil, Godwilling. ------------------ Mr. President. No man thinks more highly than I of three legged cows. They deserve to live. On my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of reason. Cows with three legs are good. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth : three-legged cows are better. They are better because the meat on them is better. The steaks are more tender. Three-legged cows tend not to wander as much. These cows could be the symbol of our country. The world would look upon us with great respect. They will want our cows and pay good money for them. The cows could symbolize freedom and hard work and three legs are better than four. They are meant for us; they can be meant for no other.
