WHY DO REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS SIDE WITH THE PANDEMIC

Dr. Fauchi has never said that more vaccinated people are killed by COVID in the US than by traffic accidents. I am not even giving you a scientific analysis, I posted an article that includes the great scientific feat of counting how many people died. You don't need to be an infectious disease expert to count, you just need to know what number comes next. 1500 people who were fully vaccinated died between the start of the pandemic in December 2019 and August 2021. Is that more or less that the number of people who died in traffic accidents in the same population? Feel free to consult any expert resources you choose. I'll give you a hint, there are about 3,000 traffic fatalities per month on average.

 

I don’t have time to respond to Stupidmonikers posts more thoroughly right now but did want to address one thing in his post. There was a case in Texas back in September of someone who died not from COVId because their local hospital couldn’t treat him because of COVID cases taking too much space. They called for a helicopter to take him to Houston but he died along the way.

I’ll post a link tot he case when I get more time but I know it was discussed here on D&D.

 

By the same logic, people who choose to not be vaccinated should bear the burden of their choice, not everyone else. They should be barred from indoor public places and the gov/taxpayer/insured should not subsidize for their covid related cost. I'm fine with this - those who cannot be vaccinated bear the burden of their own safety and those that choose not to, bear the burden of their choice.

400k and counting have died of covid since vaccination was made generally available. Probably 5% of those are vaccinated. While most young healthy aren't in the 5%, a caring society wouldn't simply discard the vulnerable like you are suggesting here.

There has been at least 1 that died because of lack of access and there are many more that weren't able to access and delayed treatment.

 

The answer is simple. Ideology, and Religion.

The roots go back to the fundamentalism of evangelical Christianity where there is obsession with end times and there is the muscle memory of “God will just take care of it” when it comes to hard big existential problems like climate change or a global pandemic.

This response of personal non-responsibility because of Religion is key. Things will just work out for them because of God. I don’t have to worry about any responsibly to change my behavior because I go to church and God will bless me.

And the excitement of end times is just too much for evangelicals. They looooovvvveeee decoding conspiracy theories about when and where it’s going to happen that they try to see Antichrist’s everywhere they go and impose that fantasy on their political enemies.

Republican politicians though… it’s a mix of that and the political strategy to sabotage the economy so they can take power. That also is not that hard to understand.

 

This is the story I was thinking of. So yes people have died from COVID-19 patients taking up medical resources that could be used to treat others.
https://abc13.com/us-army-veteran-daniel-wilkinson-michelle-puget-man-dies-waiting-icu/10983810/

Mother demands change after U.S. Army veteran dies waiting for ICU bed

HOSPITALS
Mother demands change after U.S. Army veteran dies waiting for ICU bed

By Roxie Bustamante
Sunday, August 29, 2021

A Bellville mom said her son died after waiting 7 hours for an ICU bed. Her son, Danny, did not have COVID, but she says overfilled ICUs played a part.

HOUSTON, Texas (KTRK) -- An Army Veteran died from a treatable illness after family says he waited seven hours for an ICU bed to become available.

Daniel Wilkinson, also known as Danny, had two deployments in Afghanistan and returned home as a Purple Heart recipient. His mother, Michelle Puget, said they moved to Bellville about three years ago in order to enjoy a quiet life together.

"He just [has] a big heart, a big personality and a big soul," Puget said. "In 2019, I came down with breast cancer and he took care of me two years through that. He took me to all my chemos, to my surgery. [He] took care of me, kept track of my doctor's appointment, everything. I mean he was just that type of a son."

Puget said last Saturday, Wilkinson became very ill. She took him to an emergency room just three houses down from their home where he was diagnosed with gallstone pancreatitis. Doctors said he needed treatment immediately.

"[The doctor] said, 'We know what we need to do, and how to do it. We just have to get him to a facility to get it done,' and they couldn't do that," Puget said.

Puget said the staff called hospitals across Texas, Arkansas, Colorado, Kansas and Oklahoma. Due to the COVID-19 surge dominated by the delta variant and overwhelmed hospitals, there were no ICU beds available for Wilkinson, who was a non-COVID patient.

After seven hours of waiting, the VA Hospital in Houston said they could treat Wilkinson, but by the time he was airlifted, his mother said his condition was too unstable and the doctor couldn't perform the surgery that could've prevented his death.

"It's something that nobody should have to experience and I'm just praying that some good will come from it, because every minute that he was denied an ICU bed, he was dying," she said. "Every minute counted."

Puget said she wants change in Texas hospitals. She said the state's health care system is in need of more nursing staff, tents for overflow patients and additional resources so all patients can get the care and treatment they need.

"The doctor said, 'I'm scared another one is going to come in, and the same type of situation is going to happen,'" she said. "Everybody should be able to get help if they need it. That's my wish. My wish is that his story might save somebody else's life."

For more on the growing number of COVID-19 ICU hospitalizations, follow Roxie Bustamante on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram

 

Want to add that not all Republicans have been bad on this issue. Governor Larry Hogan of MD has been a leader on this issue even famously going against the previous administration to get PPE for his state. Governor Mike DeWine of OH has also done a lot including shutting down OH relatively early on. For his trouble he's been protested against by those against shutdowns and anti-vaxxers. Mitch McConnell has also pushed vaccines and just this past week talked down Sen. Mike Lee from holding up the debt ceiling over vaccine mandates.

Both DeSantis and Abbott have been vaccinated. Abbott to his credit has talked about the vaccines are safe and effective. That they are undermining efforts in their states to get more people vaccinated including moves to pay people who lost their jobs from not taking the vaccine shows that they are in this not out of any principle but for political gain.

 

And you’re happy to invite it back in the name of freedum? I honestly can’t comprehend this level of stupidity.

So my 10 yr old cousin who fought off leukemia should have to stay inside the rest of her life because you’re too much of an ******* to get vaccinated?

This has been debunked over and over and over. There have been many cases of seeming healthy young individuals who have had sever complications and died. Delta was especially more dangerous to kids. You’re going off info from the very start and it’s been proven wrong repeatedly.

Then you don’t know anyone that works in hospitals. My very good friend who’s an ER nurse at Methodist in The Woodlands and my anesthesiologist friend would certainly tell you factually otherwise.

 

I don't think the vaccine is related to money, I think the party is corrupt and is in big businesses pocket. They vote against the best interests of the people of this country time and time again, particularly in regards to gun regulations.

The Republican party is fake, they lie about being Christians - they aren't......they are in it for themselves, by and large most people that vote republican are "ME first" people, and always vote for their own best interests.

One side, always says what about me - The GOP

The other side says - What about them? - Democrats.

One cares, one cares about themselves.

It is pure narcissistic greed ......and it is mostly prevalent in this country.

DD

 

The topic of the thread is about whether there should or should not be specific measures taken, including vaccine mandates. This is directly on point. It is okay to admit you have no response and you were wrong. Alternatively, go ahead and provide a link to something where Dr. Fauchi has said more fully vaccinated people have died from COVID than have died from traffic accidents. You made that assertion. I provided evidence to the contrary. Time for you to provide evidence in support of your assertion.

Yes. They should face the risk of infection, because they have chosen not to protect themselves from infection. Just like not wearing a seatbelt would expose you to increased risk of injury in a collision. Just like riding a motorcycle would expose you to more risk than driving a car.

If the owners of those venues want to exclude them, sure. They shouldn't be discriminated against by the law.

I don't want the government or taxpayers paying for anyone's healthcare.

Yes.

I cannot find any data that supports your 5% number. Every source I can find has the vaccinated death totals at around 0.2% or less. I posted an article earlier, here is another.
99.8% Of Recent Los Angeles Covid Deaths Were Unvaccinated People – Deadline
That is ALL the vaccinated deaths, most of those are going to be people that were already old and/or sick.

There is never going to be zero risk, but being vaccinated makes your risk of COVID death minimal, on par with risk levels we have found perfectly acceptable for influenza for decades.

I don't agree that we should limit the freedom of hundreds of millions because of a single outlier. I will agree that I was wrong. It wasn't zero people that died because there were no beds available, it was one.

Polio has been eradicated outside of Afghanistan/Pakistan. You don't need to be innoculated against it. It doesn't exist in the United States and hasn't for decades. You don't need to renew your Blockbuster membership. You aren't going to be prevented from renting movies at Blockbuster if you don't, because Blockbuster doesn't exist. There are something like 200 cases of Polio in one tiny region of the world. Removing a mandate also would not prevent you from getting vaccinated.

I was vaccinated the first week it was available to me (I waited until the weekend, so I can't say the first day). Being against mandates doesn't make someone against vaccines. The world is an imperfect place though, and the immunocompromised cannot shut down the rest of the world for their own protection. There is nothing special about this particular virus that should change our usual calculus that everyone is responsible for the risk they want to expose themselves to. AIDS exists, but we don't mandate that everyone in America take PrEP daily to help control the spread of HIV, because that would be invasive of our freedom. The only difference between that and a COVID vaccine mandate is line drawing of acceptable risk levels.

Maybe I am just not finding these sources that have debunked what I am saying over and over again. Could you provide one that shows a high risk of death for young, healthy, vaccinated people? I have looked, but so far have come up blank. The only information I have found is that death rates among the vaccinated are very low in total, and those concentrated among the old and sick.

Only at local hospitals. As far as I have been informed, we have ICU and ER beds available and have never turned anyone away because of COVID overflow. I also live in one of the areas of my state that is most resistant to getting the vaccine and testing.

Your post of why the GOP "SIDES WITH THE PANDEMIC" ie. is against vaccine mandates is because of greed. If the vaccine is unrelated to money, what did you mean? I really am not following your point. I understand on gun control, because there is money from the gun lobby but not the anti-gun lobby. I don't see how that compared to the vaccine mandate question though. Where is the greed element on vaccine mandates. If anything, opposing the mandate is counter to the money interest, because big pharma would certainly like more money to pump out more vaccines.

I responded to this point directly. I don't agree with those laws either. I am not okay with those infringements on individual freedom.

I have remained entirely on topic. That you have no response to my arguments is a weakness in your points, not mine.

 

What a waste of a decent mind to be following the right's propaganda.

He would make a great nazi.

GOP = Greed Over People

DD

 

this response is just poo flinging.

 

Let's test your theory that I am going off topic/using sleight of hand. Here are all of the relevant quotes from our back and forth:

So, you brought up seat belt laws and licensing of drivers, not me. You made the (erroneous) claim that COVID kills more vaccinated people than traffic accidents do, and I provided factual counter information. You made the claim that Dr. Fauchi said the opposite of what I said (that traffic accidents kill more people than COVID kills vaccinated people), and I asked for proof that he said this (he obviously did not, because he can at least count). You have no counter argument, so all you can do is say I am going off topic and using sleight of hand. I am discussing exactly what you posted about. It isn't my fault you are not good at this.

 

The GOP power structure has been reduced to a group of sociopaths who do not care about humanity at large as long as they get what they want, which is more for themselves.

 

https://www.cbs7.com/2021/08/27/man-dies-waiting-icu-bed-family-says/

“There are a lot of people who don’t believe the hospitals are full. It’s really hard to listen to when one of my friends’ husband was lying in a hospital dying, because he couldn’t get the treatment he needed, because the beds were full,” said family friend Liz Hamer, speaking on behalf of Van Pelt’s family.

“Rob Van Pelt was going to a routine medical procedure when something unknown went terribly wrong and he flatlined under light sedation,” a message on the page says. “He was able to be revived after many attempts and what went from a routine 20-minute appointment left him without oxygen for several minutes and he had to be life-flighted to the nearest emergency hospital with a cardiac team.”

Van Pelt died waiting three days for a bed in the ICU as unvaccinated patients overwhelmed rooms across the state, his family said. Kansas hospitals reached out to 20 states, trying to find just one available ICU bed. However, there wasn’t a single ICU bed open and emergency rooms were full.​

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...virus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia

Ray DeMonia, 73, was born and raised in Cullman, Ala., but he died on Sept. 1, some 200 miles away in an intensive care unit in Meridian, Miss.


Last month, DeMonia, who spent 40 years in the antiques and auctions business, suffered a cardiac emergency. But it was because hospitals are full due to the coronavirus — and not his heart — that he was forced to spend his last days so far from home, according to his family.


"Due to COVID 19, CRMC emergency staff contacted 43 hospitals in 3 states in search of a Cardiac ICU bed and finally located one in Meridian, MS.," the last paragraph of DeMonia's obituary reads, referring to the Cullman Regional Medical Center.


"In honor of Ray, please get vaccinated if you have not, in an effort to free up resources for non COVID related emergencies ... ," the obituary reads. "He would not want any other family to go through what his did."
​

These were ICU unit. General units were also overwhelmed. I recall in Houston, just a few months ago, thousands of Covid-19 patients were waiting for general beds.

​

 

Oops, I was wrong. It's a lot worse than 5%. It's 25%.

At the peak of Delta in the US, there was 24.6 covid death per 100k. Of those, 18.44 were unvaccinated and 6.15 were vaccinated. That's 75% vs 25%.

Take a more recent point (Oct 2, 2021), there was 9.78 covid death per 100k. Of those, 7.29 were unvaccinated and 2.49 were vaccinated. That is again 75% vs 25%.

And yes, once death is way down, I wouldn't care. We aren't there and the risk of new waves is still around.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination

 

No they are siding with idiocy because it helps them politically.

If they wanted to side with freedom, they wouldn't stop at being against vaccine mandates and masks, they would be in support of pro-choice, in support of a single payer system so people could have more freedom, they would support people having the FREEDOM to kneel at a sports event, they want workers to have the FREEDOM to unionize, and they'd want teachers to have the FREEDOM to teach students actual history and not what is offensive to the right. The GOP is only libertarian when it comes to their own political interests and blocking the opposing party.

There is no rational reason to be against wearing a mask to slow the spread of a deadly disease, and no reason to be against the jab.

You are mandated to get vaccines to go to school and for many jobs. Why should COVID be any different? Why now all of a sudden do people want choice when it comes not just to their own health, but the right to jeopardize other's health?

Why don't you have the FREEDOM to drive without a seatbelt, or the FREEDOM to drive drunk? Why don't you have the FREEDOM to shoot your gun in the air when you are happy like Yosemite Sam???