So, Shaq is just "an asset." Huh?! Age has nothing to do with it. We're talking about pure ability. Kobe needs more help than Jordan did. Think about this.... Payton Jordan (This would be Jordan's team, not Shaq's) Shaq George Malone Harper Kobe Pippen Rodman Longly
Man, imagine pairing Shaq with a young Jordan and: *teams forced to single-cover him because of doubling up on Shaq *allowing Jordan to roam at will on defence Further, I don't buy the notion that Jordan wouldn't have been as dominant under the zone regime. As a 39 year old he averaged 22.9ppg in 01/02 in 34.9 minutes, or about 25ppg per 38.3 minutes (his career average). Granted, he shot 41.5% that year, but the following year he managed 44.5%. Pretty good numbers for a slow floor-bound old man in his 40th year, on a gimpy knee, and a cut up shooting hand. [Edit] Just some stats. Jordan averaged 38.3 minutes per game for his career, so applying this stat to his last two years (i.e. aggregating his numbers for those two years and scaling those numbers by 38.3 divided by his average minutes for those two years). Jordan 01/02 to 02/03 per 38.3 minute averages (39 and 40 years of age): PPG: 22.54 RPG: 6.25 APG: 4.64 SPG: 1.55 BPG: 0.49 TO: 2.50 FG%: 43.1% FT%: 80.5% 3P%: 24.1%
Kobe is not even near Jordan skillwise. Like alot of people already have said kobe is not even the best player on his team.Jordan was the best in the nba for years. i do not even want to think about it. that would be sick. but it reminds me of the fact that Houston could have had the combo Jordan Olajuwon for so many years. it still hurts
Not exactly. What's more, Kobe's a career 45% (44% this year), and Jordan's a career 50%, despite the two years in Washington that never should have happened. For a non-center to break the 50% barrier is uncanny. For a non-center that ranks in the top ten all time for FG attempts to have made half of them, that's other-wordly. And again, Jordan worked harder on the defensive end of the court than Kobe ever has. Oh, and it's more than "an asset" that Kobe has been playing with the most dominant player in the game (notice how that label has always been given to Shaq? Find a time where someone other than Chicago Jordan got that label). W/O Diesel, Kobe becomes a slightly better Tracy McGrady. Evan
Kobe didn't have Quitten or Rodman ... only Mike can be Mike. Bryant should raise the bar in many categories. who had more rings at Kobe's age?
Kobe has Shaq to erase his defensive mistakes. Jordan played in a more physical league. Jordan also played in a deeper league and had real rivals to deal with. Kobe hasn't played against the TMacs and Paul Pierces in the playoffs and hasn't had a true matchup for him to prove himself. Both do like to take clutch shots, but Jordan surpasses Kobe in leadership and respect from his teammates who gave him their best. Maybe Kobe will adapt when he has a team on his own, but for now Jordan is undisputed.
if you can honestly tell me that Pippen + Rodman is better than having a Shaq using some hard facts, i will be impressed.
At the end of a game, Jordan is mostly remembered for taking - and making - the clutch shots. However, he also trusted his teammates. I remember a story about him telling Steve Kerr to be ready to take the shot when he drew the double team in the closing seconds of a game. After the time out, that is exactly what happened, and Kerr made the game-winning shot. That also happened with Paxson if I remember correctly. Whenever I see Kobe at the end of a game, he chucks up some crazy-ass shots. He rarely gives up the ball to his teammates. Even if he gets doubled, he'll throw something up. Sometimes he makes them, sometimes he doesn't, but the degree-of-difficulty guarantees we'll always remember when he does. Jordan was always under control. He didn't just make his teammates better. In Kerr's and Paxson's case, he made them heroes.
Exactly. Brilliant point. I don't remember saying to myself, "Man, what the hell is Jordan doing?" but I certainly think that when watching Kobe once in a while. MJ seemed to heat up and take over games, while Kobe seems to take over games and hope he heats up.
On athlete and basketball skill ends, Kobe can do the same. However, he is not mentally mature enough to take Jordan's Bulls. If Kobe had have as many losing experience as Jordan before 91, he might learn how to get along with his teammates and be more willing to accept P.J's "triangle".
alright. so lets replace pippen and rodman with the shaq during their 3 peat. i'm pretty sure it would have the same ending result--the bulls and jordan gets 6 rings. now lets put pippen, rodman, and kobe together. what would that yield in the west?
I don't see how Lakers won't make out of the west with that lineup. Pippen was one of the best players in the league during the Bulls Championship runs. Speaking of Rodman, he was a rebounding machine and tenacious defender.
I agree with you on the mental maturity of Kobe on leading. He might not have been able to deal with it the same way...But lets look at the phiscial part... It's true that Jordan and Kobe have similar mind-sets. The both have a tremendous amount of competitive FIRE. They have tremendous focus when the game is on the line. But it's their physical abilities that are way off. Jordan was 6'6". But he also had a vertical leap that was out of this world (48 inches). Even Carter at 6'6" is "only" at 43". That's incredible, but still. Jordan was at 48" and the same height as Carter. Kobe vertical is at 35" at 6'6". Next, Jordan's balance was incredible. His torso was short, legs long, arms long, shoulder wide, waist narrow...these dimensions were as near perfect for the game of basketball as you could get for a two-guard. This allowed him to do all those moves and yet still able to keep balance. He also had long fingers and wide palms (but not "too big"). This allowed for palming the ball. This allowed him to hold the ball while he contorted in mid-air. Add his freakish vertical leap of 48”, and you have a player that is nearly unstoppable in midair. Jordan’s fast muscle twitch was incredible too. Remember how fast he was able to stop and start on a dime? Lightening quick for a 6’6” 216lb guard. I don’t see that quickness with Kobe. He’s quick. But not like Jordan was. Jordan could explode on a dime and go straight up like a cat! These are all physical aspects that Kobe just doesn't have. He never will. Don't get me wrong. Kobe has great phisical abilites. But he's just not on the same level. Jordan had way too many advatanges. This has nothing to do with each player’s fundamentals or BBIQ, that another issue all together. I'm just trying to distinguish the differences between them on “natural physical advantages.” Some aspects can be improved upon over time. But most of them are natural to that particular player. Jordan just had these natural physical gifts that no one has had since. The only player that I've seen that has the same physical proportions to Jordan is, Iverson. Except on a smaller scale of 6'0". Proportionally they are very, very close. The bad part is that Iverson is 6'0"!!! That offers less advantage in total size, even though it adds some advantages in speed. But still not enough to do the things that Jordan did.
No. Bottom line is Jordan earned his rings being the MAN. Kobe has bailed the Lakers a few times in the play-offs but there is a reason why Shaq has got all the Final MVP's in the past. He was the MAN.
Carter is listed at 6'6". But to me he seems shorter than Jordan and Kobe, until I saw photos. They are all very close; they didn't do a "Barkley" on us. But the thing is...Carter's legs are shorter than Jordan and Kobe's. Yet his torso is longer...heh.
