1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Mark Berman: Astros offering Carlos Correa a 5 year/160 million dollar contract

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by DaBeard, Nov 6, 2021.

  1. King1

    King1 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    13,275
    Likes Received:
    8,716
    I'm with you on Frazier. I don't understand that at all
     
  2. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    10,956
    Likes Received:
    14,706
    Prior to the deadline in July I was speculating about Frazier as a potential upgrade in CF. I’d be surprised if that’s how Houston viewed him, but as a guy who would look good in the 7 hole and could provide insurance for both CF and SS, he makes some sense.
     
    Nook likes this.
  3. Kemahkeith

    Kemahkeith Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2018
    Messages:
    1,169
    Likes Received:
    1,878
    Sweet, this was echoed the other day before Verlander resigned. Looks like Correa is staying.
     
    Fulgore likes this.
  4. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    10,278
    Likes Received:
    5,452
    I would have no problem with Adam Frazier as a utility man added to the roster. Diaz is great but can't stay healthy. Using two reserve roster spots on those two would be great, as long as the cost to acquire isn't significant. Frazier is a good on base guy who would do well lower in a strong order
     
    Nook likes this.
  5. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    23,839
    Likes Received:
    13,895
    I don't see going after an OF that can play CF as a contradiction to what I said, unless the player would have replaced a healthy Meyers in CF. Besides for Buxton, I don't see any guys available that are better hitters and betters defenders in CF*. While I loved what Brantley and Gurriel did this past season, I would like a backup plan in case one of them can't make it through the season healthy and productive. Preferably, the Astros would find a way to give them more rest.

    *caveat: I would not consider moving Meyers to another OF spot as being replaced in CF because manager plays a suboptimal defensive alignment because he is not skilled enough to cuddle a veteran's ego.
     
    #525 Joe Joe, Nov 19, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2021
    Nook likes this.
  6. Elienator

    Elienator Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    1,379
    Likes Received:
    1,180
    The only way it makes sense to me is if Meyers is hurt worse than the last updates or if they already have plans/desires to move another outfielder. It seems like you are suggesting it’s the latter with some risk on the former.

    It’s debatable which long term need is more pressing at SS or CF, but for next season specifically the need at SS and in the bullpen seems higher than CF. Certainly they should explore if there is an upgrade at CF on a deal that presents value, but I wouldn’t at the expense of having big question marks at SS or in filling out the bullpen. Maybe it’s just the report of “aggressive” interest vs interest that seems odd.
     
    Nook likes this.
  7. HTown2017Champs

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    4,623
    Likes Received:
    4,408
    The “aggressive” pursuit report could have also been a leak. Either by the Astros as an ultimatum to tell Correa to hurry up and decide, or possibly by Marte’s agent in hopes of driving up the price and hearing up the bidding war.
     
  8. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2000
    Messages:
    14,143
    Likes Received:
    4,772
    Because any affordable replacement for Correa is going to represent a significant downgrade. Therefore, you direct resources towards strengthening other areas to offset that production loss.

    IOW, Pena + Marte is (likely) significantly better than... say, Story + Chas/Meyers, etc.
     
  9. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    53,805
    Likes Received:
    111,582
    Then we are on the same page. The Astros seem to want multiple outfielders that can play a strong centerfield. While every team would like that, the Astros appear to place a premium on it.
     
  10. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    53,805
    Likes Received:
    111,582
    I have thought about it a lot and have some opinions on.

    First, while it is true that the Astros biggest need would be replacing the lost production of Correa (offensively and defensively), it doesn't mean that they have to replace all of that production by getting another shortstop and it doesn't mean it has to be all replaced by a single player. I believe ideally they would get another high end shortstop but it seems like the Astros believe that the opportunity cost/asset cost to get a high end shortstop is higher than improving other areas. I know the Astros use this line of thinking based on what I have been told and the fact they were targeting catcher as an area of improvement when the inevitable loss of Correa happens. Well, the asking price for an offensive catcher is quite high currently. So apparently the Astros are wrestling with the idea of getting a centerfielder.

    Why centerfield? It isn't because they think Meyers isn't good or is gone for the year. To the contrary, the Astros player development people are very high on Meyers. The Astros want multiple outfielders that can cover centerfield at a high level. Is it to off set some of the lose defense with Correa gone? Are there data points they have that show it adds more wins than the generally held belief in the industry? Is it because they can get a good deal? I don't know. Is it because Story and Baez are either too expensive or they are not really valued by the Astros?

    The second possibility is that the Astros really like Pena, and value having him under team control at little money for half a decade? Pena is a very good fielder, and the reports from within the organization from the player development people on Pena are very high. His make up is also considered exceptional. With Verlander resigned maybe the Astros do not feel pressure to trade for an ace with the market for them getting more expensive.

    Maybe if the Astros add Marte and use Pena as their SS, they intend to rely more on defensive range and speed/base stealing. Pena isn't a burner but he is a good base runner, Marte is elite and Meyers can steal a bag here or there.

    They are very flexible as an organization.
     
  11. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    53,805
    Likes Received:
    111,582
    I'm hearing the Astros interest in Marte is legitimate, and that makes sense because they went after him at the trade deadline as well.... they just seem to like him as a player more than some other teams do.
     
    Marteen and Snake Diggit like this.
  12. HTown2017Champs

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    4,623
    Likes Received:
    4,408
    @Nook Is it not of concern that Marte is 33, and wants a 3, 4 or even 5 year deal? Speed is his biggest asset, and I expect him to start to slow down soon.
    Is it also a concern that replacing Correa with Marte (essentially) is a downgrade in power? Especially when the Astros were out homered 11-2 in the WS, and 1B and LF are already low-power positions?
     
    BigMaloe and Chilly_Pete like this.
  13. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    10,956
    Likes Received:
    14,706
    Total extra base hits last 4 seasons:
    Correa 149
    Marte 180

    The idea that Houston would be losing a ton of power switching out Correa for Marte is a myth.
     
  14. HTown2017Champs

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    4,623
    Likes Received:
    4,408
    Now do home runs. Matte only hit 20+ HR in 2018 and 2019. Most of that I bet is doubles. Those are nice but the resulting lineup doesn’t have much 25+ HR pop. Only Tucker, Alvarez, and Altuve (and Bregman if healthy). I know, we’re spoiled. But power is an underrated problem IMO.
     
  15. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    53,805
    Likes Received:
    111,582
    I don't know how concerned they are about his age as I haven't heard much discussion on it from anyone associated. I can speculate that they believe at his age he wont get 5 years. With contracts shorter (even with older players) you are limiting your exposure and that appears to be important to the Astros. They gave a 39 year old pitcher coming off an injury 50 million dollars guaranteed and that second year could be a disaster.... but it limits the expose to two seasons and not 6-10 like some of the bigger free agents.

    As far as power and the Astros are concerned, it doesn't appear to be a major concern with the front office. Putting the ball in play, walking and avoiding strikeouts in huge numbers appear to matter. Also, it could be the Astros believe that Pena (if he is their SS) will hit for power.
     
  16. AznH-TownFan

    AznH-TownFan Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2018
    Messages:
    938
    Likes Received:
    1,227
    Don’t underestimate Pena power at the plate. His bat has a lot of pop all over the field. Marte in the CF should give Leon more time to develop as an OF.
     
  17. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    10,278
    Likes Received:
    5,452
    Also wouldn't surprise me if they want Leon to be an everyday utility guy. Already worked him at SS, could see him potentially at other infield spots along with the OF this year in Sugarland

    That would fit the Tampa mode that Click has strong ties to
     
    BlindHog and AznH-TownFan like this.
  18. Rockets12

    Rockets12 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    612
    Marte has 61 homeruns (1794 PA) and Correa has 67 homeruns (1650 PA). Granted most of Marte's HR power was in 2018/2019
     
    Snake Diggit likes this.
  19. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    23,839
    Likes Received:
    13,895
    The Astros don't have a flexible roster which causes issues when giving guys rest (particularly CF and SS causing them to have weaker bats on the bench), and love them some fly ball pitchers.
     
    mikol13 and Nook like this.
  20. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    23,839
    Likes Received:
    13,895
    Toro, Jones, Marwin, Dawson, Wilson, and Garcia had a combined 378 plate appearances not as a SS and had a weighted RC+ of 58. Replacing those plate appearances is how the Astros can go from Correa to Pena without losing a beat. The Astros really need Diaz to be healthy to backup 2B and 3B, a great utility man added, or someone that can hit and play 1st base so Gurriel can backup 2B and 3B.
     
    #540 Joe Joe, Nov 19, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2021

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now