I never said also that the Rockets should go target vets like say Tobias Harris or CJ and just be competitive either. I'm fine with the Roster as is. I'm just saying people should not fall in love with this idea that if you just suck you're increasing your chances at being a championship contender. I don't think that's true at all. I think the best outcome is for the Rockets to be good because that means the moves they made paid off and paid off quickly. I think a lot of people fall into this idea that to build a championship team takes a long time. I think that's true of Baseball, but the other team sports...meh...and then people get content and look for 'next year'. The tanking strategy, or 'the process' I define as sucking until you draft a superstar. Whether that be Green or some guy 7 years from now, what OKC is basically doing. If the argument is "We're going to be bad anyway so we may as well take advantage of that." I agree...for next season. But the 2022-23 season we SHOULD definitely be seeing some blooming from the flowers we've planted.
It applies to everyone but the point here is that none of this works without Kerr. If the Warriors kept Jackson they are just a competitive team that stalls out in insert round here. It's why posts back I mentioned it all matters. The Owner (starts there) the GM/FO and the coaches all matter and a sign of good ownership, FO, and coaching staff is not sucking for year after year after year. I don't think so. I think if you have competent Ownership, Front office, and coaching then these decisions start to look a lot easier and start to make a lot more sense. I think bad organizations hope to just roll their way into luck while good ones make their own luck. Doesn't mean there is no such thing as luck, of course there is. Heat had bad luck that some guys decided to re-up with their teams but they are still a well run organization with assets and star players and a move or two away from a championship run again. My assessment is they won't be top 5 bad, more like top 7-9 bad. With how the lottery works now though that can still land you in the top 5 any ways so maybe luck strikes our way again in the lottery.
And the Kings are the Kings... But the fact remains the Lakers still tanked to get the assets needed to trade for AD. We aren't the Lakers or the Kings but somewhere in between, I'd argue closer to the Lakers. Which often comes down to luck..... And that came with a bit of luck.... while being in a situation to take advantage of it..... Likewise, with your plan of committing to this core + Simmons..... what if it doesn't work out? What's your plan B if you greatly overestimated KPJ, Wood, and Simmons? We'd have no choice but to move on and try again.
Im confused. Mavericks made the playoffs in Lukas second season. I’m assuming we have our franchise players in KP and Green already. The quick success of Ja, Trae, Donovan Mitchell and Luka in terms of making the playoffs early is what I’m trying to emulate. That is the type of prospect Green is expected to be.
Sucking happens naturally when playing young guys. No one is perfect. Jalen Green may only become a good player. While I am not in the pro-tank (intentionally losing to improve the draft pick*) crowd, saying the 2022-2023 season is the season we should be seeing blooming doesn't make sense to me. I'm all for doing whatever it takes to make a contender. If it takes being patient and following the process for a few years, I'm fine with it. If Wood and Sengun play well together and Rockets are able to trade Wall's expiring contract for someone great after this season, I'm also fine with it. I think 2023-2024 is a more realistic timeline as Green and Sengun will have a couple of years together, Wall's contract expires, Rockets can sign/trade for someone, and then extend Wood. Though, how players play will dictate decisions as well as if other teams make good trade offers. If Green and and Sengun aren't good players, it might take longer. *developing young players which I am for will likely lead to a similar result.
At this point I wonder...superstars are choosing where they want to play, assets be damned. I have a feeling NOP would have just accepted whatever the Lakers could give. But I don't necessarily agree it's all down to luck, there's a reason teh Kings are the Kings, they've passed on every great talent every year, it's what they do. At some point it's just bad scouting. Whose to say if they didn't get that pick that they'd still make a bad decision? Whose to say if Dallas didn't get Luka (because the Kings once again stupidly passed on star player) that they would not have drafted Trae Young and been fine or traded down and been fine? There's a reason that some teams are always relevant and some teams are not. That's the Ownership and FO and then the coaching staff. It's not committing at all, not like we're extending their contracts. They are assets if they are not good enough and we shouldn't wait forever to decide on if they are or are not good enough. 2-3 years max...you're not ready to carry the team? Trade them for picks and young players and find someone that can.
But it took 2 seasons of not making the playoffs to get Luka. And it took the incredible luck of a generational player being available for the Mavs. Which is quite the assumption. KPJ wasn't a highly touted prospect but yet you are elevating him to franchise player? You can argue Green is the franchise player but Green isn't the point guard/point forward that Luka, Ja, and Trae are and you expect him to contribute in a similar fashion. Of course we don't want to a drag out the rebuild, but sometimes that's how the chips fall.
See, you're thinking about Green and Sengun here and I'm thinking about KPJ and Wood. That's their timeline. The best case scenario is that KPJ continues to consistently dominate and reaches his full potential which then makes way for Green growing into the player we hope he can be. KPJ is not a rookie, he has experience, another full year of experience should be what he needs before he starts understanding what needs to be done to not just put up numbers but win games as well.
That’s why I listed multiple players. Luka is generational. Trae, Ja and Mitchell are not. KP is going top 5 in a redraft in that class. His draft position fell because of off court issues not talent. I’m talking optimistically and best case scenario here because if we fail the next step is simply just tank again. Green doesn’t have to be a point guard to have early playoff success. Donovan Mitchell isn’t an elite playmaker. Jayson Tatum isn’t either. && if it doesn’t work then we keep just building through the draft. I’m not understanding the disconnect here.
I guess due to the nature of the NBA, I just don't see the point of comparing ourselves to these teams or using them as sort of baseline. I guess it mostly comes down to me not feeling the same way about KPJ and starting the clock last season.
Which has stopped other teams from trying right? This isn't the argument..... just that it is a factor, an important one. It's frustrating I am having to argue things that weren't said.... There has to a be a Luka or Trae level player in the draft.... what if there isn't? And we aren't the Kings..... So why do you keep comparing us to teams that are perennial losers? I mean aside from how making poor comparisons props up your argument? You seem to prefer to trade for Simmons which commits us to a path of relying on our current core and not rebuilding..... So either way, we may to try and rebuild again in 3 years.
If KPJ and Wood can elevate the Rockets, I'm fine with it. Though, KPJ and Wood carrying a team of mostly rookies and second year players still seems very overly optimistic next season.
I wouldn’t say argue. For me it seems clear and obvious. Extremely young team weighed down by an anchor contract. So no reason to spend assets to trade it away because you will not be able to compete regardless. If you do that worsens the pick this season. You have the timeframe of keeping your picks for two seasons. WHICH coincides with that contract. Take all of that together and as far as I can tell you would develop your young guys this season which means you lose a lot. So whatever you want to call that. you said 5 seasons. I am saying 1-2 more seasons makes perfect since. A player like Ben Simmons doesn’t change and make you deviate from that in my humble opinion.
Then don't say it? You said it. You go "I don't see why the Grizzlies are so special." I say "Because they have a PG with the potential to be the best PG in the nba." You go "That comes down to luck." Now, when people say "Comes down" you can usually intrepert that as "mostly" or plays a major factor to it. If I say "Hitting a baseball mostly comes down to skill." What am I saying? Then you'll be tanking again until there is... You keep saying this but everything from the Les' Rockets has changed except branding and that could change too. We could very well be the Kings, that's still very much in the air. The idea that we're still those Rockets when most of the FO has changed...no, all the decision-makers have changed. We very well could be the kings. Green could be a bust, the next guy after that and the guy after that... Simmons value to a team gets underrated because of memes it seems.
I think they will be good enough to just prevent us from tanking into the top 5 is my guess as to what will happen. I think people are selling both of them short because they are not top draft picks but they are still very good players and KPJ has a lot of room for improvement.
I think Ben Simmons went from being overrated to now being criminally underrated where people think he's now a negative player or some kind of scrub when that simply isn't true and I think his main issues aren't even his talent but his skill. The funny thing is I think he's completely capable of shooting but he simply refuses to do so because he clearly has mental issues and plays with a real anxiety. Ben Simmons I do not feel is the same level of veteran like CJ because he still has upside and can still help a rebuilding team. I understand why people would not want him though and th idea that he's just going to mess up the tank..but then again, I don't care that much about the tank. I feel like he's still a young player with upside and terrific potential so he's worth a gamble (depending on what you give up for him) and I also don't worry about attracting big name superstars or FAs because we haven't proved anything for that to happen and tanking will do the exact opposite of attracting these big name players for the team any way.
He's not a scrub but as many of us have seen, the man thinks he's on Giannis's level and wants to be treated as such. He wants to go to a team built for him. If KPJ and Green were already somewhat seasoned, I might think about it. At this point I want KPJ Wood and Green to know it is their team and grow.
Nope, clearly you are incapable of grasping my point that I've been trying to explain over many pages. You just keep repeating the same poorly argued points about team building without any nuance. You think all tanking is bad so you don't want any part of it, which is your bias. However, it is clearly a part of successful team building, which often does require a bit of luck along with good preparation. The Grizzlies and Mavs needed that luck and good player evaluation. Or you'll be overcommitting to mentally weak players like Simmons and have to tank anyways. Or just be stuck with players like Lin and Asik. Oh. How inconvenient.... now the Rockets are the lowly Kings so it is most prudent we overcommit to Simmons. What evidence has Stone, a Morey disciple, given to you that he deserves to be lumped in with the Kings? Did you find our recent draft to be mediocre? Did you find the acquisition of KPJ to be a pure luck? Or was KPJ player evaluation and good timing (luck)? Pray tell.... And you've convinced yourself Simmons is the answer.... and he could be a bust .... and then the next guy you've convinced yourself of... and the next guy... See how simple your type of reasoning is? No.... it's because he's become objectively worse each year and shrinks in the playoffs. The man was afraid to shoot FTs in a playoff game and everyone knew it. That's the player you've deemed worthy to commit to.
I think if the Wall/Dipo experiment last season wasn't a complete flop and the Rockets were competitive to a least the play-in (subsequently losing the pick to OKC), the talks of getting Simmons would have been a lot stronger.
