Would you trade John Wall & 3 - 4 1st rounders for Ben Simmons?

I'm with you somewhat on Ben Simmons and you're making a compelling argument, but these examples all come from a different era in their respective sport. Deion finished playing his SECOND stint 16 years ago. Ben Wallace Played his last game 9 years ago. Metta World Peace 4 years ago (and although he wasn't a shooter, it wasn't wise to sag off him on the perimeter). Rodman? Last game was in 2000. Football, baseball, basketball have all drastically changed in the last 4 years, let alone the last 2 decades.

While I don't hate Ben Simmons, I've yet to be convinced that a non-shooter should be paid the max in TODAY'S NBA where shooting is the currency. I'm not convinced that paying Simmons the max for 4 more years would be better than tanking and drafting.

 

ben was adamant during the last trade that he didn't want to play in houston.

 

And almost all of Houston is relieved that he feels this way! HARD PASS!

 

So you are saying Giannis, a non shooting 3-point player winning it all was an illusion.

Non 3-point shooting Rudy Gobert, helped lead his team to the number 1 seed in the
West doesn't win.

Non shooting 3-point shooter in Ben Simmons can't help lead Philly to the number
seed in the East? Only he just did that.

You are afraid of guys sagging off of Ben in the playoffs because......no one
sets screens in the playoffs? You are telling me that all screens in the playoffs
are set beyond the 3-point line? Dwight Howard skipped action vs the Rockets
but was pivotal in the WCF's and NBA finals to win a championship just over
a season ago.....but that's outdated?

The Rockets have about 10 players slotted to make minimal money and they can't
afford a guy that has been in the league 4 years and making 3 straight All Star appearances.

If you paid for a defensive stopper at each position for the quality Ben provides
it might look something like:
His point guard defense: $5 million
His ability to guard shooting guards: $7 million
His ability to defend small forwards: $15 million
His ability to defend power forwards: $14 million
His ability to guard centers: $10 million

That's $51 million in total value if you had to pay for the Simmons
defensive quality at each position. He saves you roster quality at every
position across the board. Embiid knows this. Without Simmons,
Embiid will have to work much harder than he is.

SF are all the rage because they guard across the board defensively.
We had a steal with Ariza at $8 million until every team saw the value
being so high. People were saying what Ariza would do was a steal
for that price. Then he left us for that $15 million dollar pay day.
There is some trade off....Ariza was defense and spot shooting 3's while
Simmons is defense and higher than the average bear in passing.

You don't want to talk about defensive specialist, ok......I think you
fail to envision a Ben Simmons offensively without Embiid and Tobias
Harris clogging the paint.

If you open up his game you might be surprised what the Rockets uncover

*I feel Atlanta would have been in the finals if Trae Young did not get hurt....
his teammate Capela does not shoot 3-pointers. You negate all the good
Capela did with the view you are taking. Yes a defense can say off of Capela
but it can be overcome. Simmons does not have a bad FG% from 10 feet.
Pick-n-Pop is an option from 10 feet away. Especially without post up junkies
of Embiid/T Harris near by.

 

I don’t know why people make this so complicated.

Simmons is a ball handler that can’t shoot. At all. That is next to worthless in this league.

Off ball, he’s Westbrook.

Hard pass. The defensive chops mean next to nothing when they can completely ignore you on offense.

 

I find it humorous when people post things like "if we unlock his potential" or "if we play him in this position" or "if he comes here and change X" as if this team (head coach, assistant coaches, etc.) just didn't oversee the worst record in franchise history since its inception. The expectation that Silas somehow turns into something like a Phil Jackson and overcomes his lack of extensive head coaching experience to change the mind of a (perceived) franchise player is ....weird.

 

Neither Doc Rivers or Daryl Morey, 2 of the best HCs and GMs in the league, have been able to “change” Ben Simmons.

I am sure that Simmons is using Giannis as his argument for not adjusting his game. When Simmons finishes 84% of his attempts at the rim, draws 10 FTAs and hits them at nearly a league average rate, let’s talk. Until then, he needs a jumper.

 

Nice post but

1. Giannis does shoot 3 and midrange...he killed phoenix with midrange game in games 5 and 6..he does have a jumpshot, not the best one but serviceable

2. Capela also isnt being paid MAX AND is not a diva represented by Klutch agency

3. Dwight also wasnt being paid max, and wasnt acting like diva at the time when he helped LA win championship

 

Yea but according to some on here all Simmons need is tutelage from the great shooting instructor John Lucas. I mean I never knew that was a part of his value/skill set but apparently Lucas can also make non-shooters into Steph Curry now.

 

3 picks + an expiring is borderline Superstar value. Wall reduces the value.

Simmons is outright not worth 3 picks and we would not use a pick to dump wall on his own so the way you're describing the transaction doesn't reflect the reality of the situation. The truth is: even though Wall is attached,

Walls contract expires in the next FA window where any decent star is available (2023). By the deadline he'll have 1.5 years remaining on his contract. Not worth factoring into a Simmons trade.

We will never get more than that back for Simmons alone. Morey would attach pick(s) to swap Holiday and Simmons, please don't act like they're in the same ballpark.

 

LOL I am sure Lucas is a talented shot doctor its only that he needs his ability to be unlocked by a coach doctor

 

I love Lucas and what he's done to help rehabilitate players but asking the guy to work magic off the court as well as fix Ben Simmons? He's not Gandalf man.

 

I just don’t see what others see. There is no “potential” with Simmons. He is what he is.

He is roughly equivalent to Giannis on defense (though I think a reasonable argument can be made that Giannis is better), but he is HALF the offensive force, and Giannis is far from the best offensive player in the league.

Simmons is exactly the same player today that he was his rookie year. No growth, no development. Exactly the same.

 

this

Harden required a ton of picks

Dame will too when he gets traded

AD required Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, the #4 overall pick, and 2 other picks

John Wall is a negative asset…ain’t no team trading their superstar for John Wall and a couple of mediocre picks thrown in

 

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7aD...ca5a0c26a46fd4737ffd1ee6c5&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

There is not much value in next year draft, after the top 10 to 12 players....not much as what the expert are saying.....i think they are looking for another up and coming all star player and they would trade their picks and old players. I would like to have Simmons but Morey do not want to get embarrassed by the Rockets trade.....feel sorry for the 76ers

 

Hypothetically…

What if Stone is absolutely sold on Simmons on this team for his long term vision? What if Stone is like okay I’m okay with Simmons playing the 1 and not shooting… his defense and passing is elite and that’s what I want…

He trades Wall and KPJ, (one of them possibly getting re-routed to another team) and the rockets get back Simmons and possibly another starting caliber player.

You then could have Simmons playing at the 1 obviously not a shooter… BUT Jalen Green is such a natural scorer and shooter that you can have him shoot as much as he wants.

Idk, I’m just looking at all the possible angles Houston might be considering. I think most of this sits on the fact if Stone and the Rockets are sold on KPJ.

If they’re not, I can see them trading for Simmons.

 

that’s reasonable to a degree, but it’s not a justification to do that deal right now.

the best thing Houston can do right now is just wait. Let’s see if KPJs shooting, defense and turnovers improve.

 

superstar?

 

I’m not talking about Ben Simmons…

follow the convo