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1,500,000 fewer students are going to U.S. colleges and universities than 5 years ago

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by Xerobull, Sep 21, 2021.

  1. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    for some college means moving out and enjoying life without the full responsibility of adult life. tho the downside is being a poor college student.
     
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  2. CoolGuy

    CoolGuy Contributing Member

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    The current US higher education system is a product of capitalism...
     
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  3. Rileydog

    Rileydog Contributing Member

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    Context matters. For middle and lower class America, maybe college is too big a financial stretch and some combo of community college or trade school makes sense as a better investment. But it depends on your goals and whether ceiling matters.

    For the foreseeable future, college is largely necessary if you mean to climb into the upper middle class or upper class (unless you’re into IT, coding or the like), or to do enough professionally to retire early/achieve financial security.

    And then there is the viewpoint that college should be viewed from a strictly utilitarian/financial return standpoint. There should be some value assigned to learning things that don’t directly translate to $, and to the experience of transitioning to adulthood in a college setting. Of course, that’s a luxury of thought that’s only afforded to the middle class and up, but it’s there.

    I worked and paid my way through college and it was tough and doubled down on law school. The return on investment has been good, but there’s also the growth/experience element that has to be valued.

    Ultimately, if there is de-prioritization of college, I think that just expands the gap between the haves and have nots. Those who eschew colllege might be better off if they focus on trade school. Others who do so could be just less motivated/talented and do nothing, but maybe they’ll possibly be better off because they didn’t spend that coin on a degree they were not going to benefit from.
     
  4. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    I always find it hard to make whether going to school or starting a career

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    Reuben Klamer, Creator of the Game of Life, Dies at 99
    He developed an estimated 200 toys and other items, including a phaser rifle for “Star Trek.” But his best-known product was a game for “literally everyone on earth.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/20/business/reuben-klamer-dead.html
     
  6. Phillyrocket

    Phillyrocket Member

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    For one college was initially intended as an institute of higher learning not a means to get a career. In the last several decades it was twisted to if you don’t want to dig ditches go to college as we all heard from our parents stuck in dead end jobs loathing their new young bosses with BAs.

    But now a college degree has basically the same worth as a HS diploma because everyone has one. It’s no longer a golden ticket but a requirement for even very entry level jobs.

    I have two bachelors and a masters but a lot of what I learned I had forgotten when ready to apply it and so had to go look it up and refresh. What I would change is combine the Junior and Senior years of HS with 2 years of community college. The classes are basically redundant anyway.
     
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  7. AXG

    AXG Member

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    When I was applying fresh out of undergrad, almost every job required a graduate degree. I then went to law school. From a financial standpoint, it didn't really pay off until about 5+ years in and get in the right field.
     
  8. IBTL

    IBTL Member

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    Jobs are pickier in other ways now but surprised how much I'm seeing "or equivalent experience" instead of "degree required"
     
  9. PhiSlammaJamma

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    After robot, there will nothing to do. We go back to school, but hot robot teachers sleep with teenage boys. So different. But same.
     
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  10. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!

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    My wife worked at The Art Institute, a for-profit college. She saw some dirty/crooked **** there that made her quit. No colleges should be for-profit (or prisons, for that matter). There are some things, for integrity's sake, that capitalism shouldn't touch.

    Books, internet, determination. No need to pay for learning. If I want to learn about 1700's England, there are plenty of resources.

    Motivations vary. I can say from working in the medical field that what drives a lot of medical staff is that it's a well-paying job. They also become inured to petty pain and suffering, sort of like a parent with 12 kids. I agree though, dealing with a vast hoard of patients who have self-inflicted wounds has to be disheartening.

    Any STEM degree will pay for itself, eventually. A tenured nurse is going to make more than a master plumber, unless that plumber has his own business and good business acumen, which is really a different skillset entirely (and can go for the nurse, as well).

    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for trades, trade schools and apprenticeships. Your statement was just a little narrow.

    In other words, someone else is paying for them to **** around, OR they are getting loans and kicking the can down the road. Not a good model by any means to teach responsibility. I dropped out of college at 19 because I was making ~50k a year in sales working 30 hours a week in the early 90's, making more than anyone else in my family except my pilot uncle. My apartment was $400 a month and with utilities it was probably $550 total. I made that much in less than a week and the rest was gravy. It was much less work than going to school. By that definition I was living the vida college life. I partied my ass off, slept with women, hung out all day and played video games (work was 5-9).

    Funny story. The guy who built my day job's Citrix infrastructure from the ground up had a HS diploma. He left after 15 years for what he thought was greener pastures. He hated his new job and the guy who he left in charge folded under pressure and **** started hitting the fan. My work made him a nice offer to return, but he couldn't meet the educational requirements for his own job. They had to hastily tag 'or equivalent experience' on to get him re-hired. (I knew he'd be back and told him that as he walked out :))

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. TimDuncanDonaut

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    There's nothing wrong with learning for learning's sake.

    The issue is that there's no price control on tuition. Each year the rates keep going up (well past regular inflation rates). Universities public or private keep raising their prices without actually showing added value or adding successes of higher paying jobs.

    Added value is not adding another wing to a library, building a squash court, or making dorms like hotels.

    The issue is unis for profit.
     
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  12. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    Thank you. I have a LOT of issues with higher ed, but not sure everyone here needs to cheerlead a LESS educated American public. Careful what you wish for. Degrees at Facebook U should be interesting.
     
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  13. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!

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    https://www.facebook.com/careers/students-and-grads/students

    I love how well they de-aged the boomers for the marketing.
     
  14. K LoLo

    K LoLo Member

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    One of the issues though is you don't want to "over populate" certain fields.

    My wife did a physical therapy assistant program. While she was in program (or maybe shortly after), there were talks of changing it from an associates degree to a bachelors. Reason being, the associations of physical therapy assistants wanted to push for it, in order to make sure there is a barrier to entry for PTA's.

    Think about it. If everyone could be a nurse in a semester and then get a job (or accountant, or whatever), the supply goes up, and the wages would get stagnant.

    For CPA's, the exam is graded on a curve, to make sure that there aren't too many in the market. You definitely don't want to overload the market with supply.

    I think the same goes with degrees. Reason people need masters or better these days is because so many people are getting their 4 year degree. If there's no barrier to entry (getting a degree) wages remain stagnant (like working at mcdonalds for close to minimum wage until the government makes the employer change it).
     
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  15. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    75% of college-educated Americans have pursued getting vaccinated, versus 50% of non-college Americans. #justsayin

    No stats available on trade school grads.
     
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  16. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    I was looking at a PTA degree a decade ago. I was surprised the responsibilities PTA's we given in relative to their pay/degree. The pay should absolutely be higher, but so should the education requirements.

    I dont like the barrier to entry idea. Its largely what keeps the poverty gap in place. If an individual lives in an impoverished school district and a lack of at home examples/support, its very hard for these kids to jump into established careers.

    In your immediate examples, its hard to find a good doctor. Nurses are burnt out. Its hard to find a good CPA.

    In most professional fields, people are paid on their effort/competence. There are nurses that make crap pay and there are specialty nurses that make great money. That specialty nurse did not get there with just a semester in school. Thats not to say we should water down the requirements to be in said field to let anyone in, but we absolutely should make it easier for people to specialize while earning a living w/out sending them into life long crippling debt.
     
  17. K LoLo

    K LoLo Member

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    There's going to be a ton of people who actually work in those fields who don't want the added competition. If you flood the market with nurses (even if they're all good), so that nurses aren't burnt out that really just means they're working less and then also getting paid less. If you're a great CPA now, and they open the floodgates, your rates go down. Great for consumers, bad for the ones who do the work. That's why they fight these things.

    I don't think people should come out with crippling debt either, but a lot of that is self inflicted. When it was "refund day" at school, people were celebrating just like "tax return refund day". When really it meant that they got a loan that was too large. They then used that money for going out, buying a car, taking a vacation, etc. I think we should be more strict with loans VS "everyone goes for free". I just think once the government gets involved (more involved), the prices will continue to go up in cost, not down.

    I think there should be better training in high school for real jobs people can get coming out. In Texas City, they are now doing maritime programs and programs with the local community college for people who want to work in the factories down there. Those are real jobs that can make a difference instead of the government making sure people can get their doctorate in floral design/dance/whatever else won't give you a good shot at a job.

    We have to be real about job prospects when people are trying to sign up for college. Make it harder to get into programs with fewer prospects and easier for jobs with more. You could even vary the prices ($300 a credit for dance, $100 a credit for STEM - made up numbers, I know it's more).
     
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  18. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    if you get a medical degree nobody gives a rats ass where it's from, as long as youre certified. Any other industry is 50/50
     
  19. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    This is another thing to look into
    THE LAW OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES

    Rocket River
     
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  20. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    Just do the study at a juco... not a university. :D
     

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