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[Reason] Biden's Plan To Crack Down on Tax Cheating: Snooping on Everyone's Bank Accounts

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Sep 17, 2021.

  1. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    what could possibly go wrong?

    https://reason.com/2021/09/16/biden...cheating-snooping-on-everyones-bank-accounts/

    Biden's Plan To Crack Down on Tax Cheating: Snooping on Everyone's Bank Accounts
    by Eric Boehm
    9.16.2021 5:45 PM

    In order to make sure the rich are paying their fair share in taxes, President Joe Biden says the IRS just needs two bits of information: all the money that goes into your bank account, and all the money that comes out.

    That's how Biden pitched his plan for a more comprehensive financial surveillance state—all to catch those nasty tax-cheating rich folks, of course—during a speech from the White House on Thursday afternoon.

    The plan "will give the IRS the resources it needs to keep up with the lawyers and accountants of the super-wealthy. It would ask just for two pieces of information from the banks of these folks: the amounts that come into their bank accounts and what amounts go out of their bank accounts," Biden said. Right now, he added, "the IRS can't see what they're making, and can't tell that they're cheating."

    Thankfully, he stopped short of using the "If you've got nothing to hide…" cliché.

    Still, Biden's framing of this plan to beef up IRS enforcement with an additional $80 billion in funding is wildly off-kilter. As I wrote in April, giving the IRS more information about the inflow and outflow of bank accounts won't automatically tell the IRS that someone is hiding unreported, taxable income. But it gives the federal tax cops another way to establish probable cause for a financial stop-and-frisk.

    The details of Biden's plan are far different from the innocuous-sounding description he used Thursday.

    "The administration's proposed 'comprehensive financial account reporting regime' would dramatically increase the types of financial institutions and transactions exposed to the feds' prying eyes," Reason's Matt Welch recently wrote. "The new domestic surveillance program, which requires congressional approval, is one prong of a tripartite strategy for transforming the entire global financial system into a harmonious, haven-free collection funnel to the IRS."

    Closing the so-called "tax gap" and making sure everyone pays what they owe is a crucial part of how Biden and congressional Democrats plan to pay for part of the budget-busting $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill curring {sic} being crafted by the House. The $700 billion that will supposedly come from stepped-up tax enforcement was the largest single funding source for Biden's American Families Plan when he outlined it earlier this year (though Congress could make significant changes before the bill is finalized).

    It is disingenuous to suggest, as Biden did Thursday, that letting the IRS peep at your bank records is about ensuring "that the wealthy can no longer hide what they're making, and they can finally pay the fair share of what they owe."

    As the details of his proposal make clear, enhanced tax enforcement will mean hoovering up more data from crypto wallets, bank accounts, and third-party payment providers such as PayPal and Venmo. And that comes after Biden already ordered the IRS to give greater scrutiny to transactions in the so-called sharing economy.

    Biden is pitching this plan as a way to go after the wealthy people who can afford tax lawyers and accountants. But as always, the people who can't afford those things will probably bear the brunt of the new rules.

    "I'm not out to punish anyone. I'm a capitalist," Biden said Thursday. "All I'm asking is that you pay your fair share."

    All he's really asking is the end of financial privacy for millions of Americans.

     
  2. FANfrom86toNow

    FANfrom86toNow Contributing Member

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    Disgusting government over reach. I definitely won't be voting for Biden again in 2024, if he even runs. Any politician that votes for this in my area, I will also vote against in any elections. The government is out of control on a multitude of issues.
     
    TheresTheDagger likes this.
  3. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    They need to simplify the tax codes. Make it easier to average people to do tax returns (eliminate the need for filing walls of text and/or using Turbotax). Close tax haven loopholes domestically (Delaware) and abroad.

    One step at a time I guess. :rolleyes:
     
    DonnyMost likes this.
  4. HardenVolumeOne

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    biden is what everybody thought trump was
     
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  5. FANfrom86toNow

    FANfrom86toNow Contributing Member

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    We should eliminate personal income tax. Then tax all business and sales other than meat, fruit, vegetables and medicines, at 10% for every sale of anything....including things like commercial rents, home sales, cars, boats, hotels, anything that is a sale and isn't considered a necessity for life. Require every business or individual that sells things to have an IRS deposit account, and the money is deposited from every sale daily as it's made. People or businesses can charge a 10% federal income on receipts if they want, or just take it off of their gross sales if they want to be competitive in appearance.

    Then there would be no need for any individual or business to ever file a tax return. The government collects billions of tax revenue daily that they can apply to the debt and save interest daily since it accrues that way. The IRS enforcement would be narrowed down to businesses that don't want to charge the tax or hide it in whatever clever ways that they come up with, because they will. But individuals would never be in trouble with the IRS or in debt to them. They would just pay the tax in what they purchase other than necessities, so it's their choice to do so; but they get all of their income every paycheck...minus social security and medicare withholdings of course.

    Then companies like Amazon would have paid $38.6 billion in taxes on their $386.06 billion in revenue for 2020, instead of the measly $1.8 billion in taxes reportedly paid by them, the first in many years.
     
  6. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    The IRS already "snoops" on every bank accounts. So what's new snooping are we talking about here. From the article link, the only thing I found is total (or aggregated) inflow and outflow. The article said, "all the money that goes into... and comes out". That can be read as every single transaction which is completely misleading.

    The-American-Families-Plan-Tax-Compliance-Agenda.pdf (treasury.gov)
     
    Nook, Andre0087 and Invisible Fan like this.
  7. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    how is a dragnet blanket surveillance of everyone's financial activity not a 4th amendment violation?
     
  8. adoo

    adoo Member

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    it’s too bad that the gullible OT has been easily fooled by this intellectually dishonest article.
    earth to OT,

    IRS has always had the authority to access taxpayers’ bank accounts.

    it’s been this way ever since the IRS was established, in the 1930s
    This was how the Feds gather evidence to prove that Al Capone was cheating ( didn’t report his income from the illegal sales of alcoholic) on his tax returns

    Also, banks/financial institutions are required to report regularly on suspicions transactions, such as those > $10k
     
    Rashmon likes this.
  9. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    so you're saying the US Government has always been able to do an economic stop-and-frisk on people's bank accounts. I rather doubt that, but I'll grant you the debate point. With Al Capone there was reasonable evidence to warrant the search of his tax records.

    I think we're talking about something completely different here--particularly in an age that is increasingly tending toward going cashless. Dragnet is a good descriptor.

    you also don't really identify where the article is "intellectually dishonest," you merely assert that.

    But ultimately I don't really care about your assertions, or about your monkey poo-flinging ad hominems of 'gullible OT'
     
  10. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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  11. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    and more analysis

    https://reason.com/2021/04/29/biden...to-snoop-on-bank-transactions-venmo-accounts/

    excerpt

    Everyone should pay the taxes they owe, of course, but it is virtually certain that a beefed-up IRS will create new headaches for banks, financial institutions, and anyone who uses them. Biden says he's targeting only the wealthiest Americans, but his own Treasury Department is already signaling that increased tax enforcement will require hoovering up more data from bank accounts and third-party payment providers like PayPal and Venmo.
    more at the link
     
  12. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    "Dragnet" might be a fair description, but it's historically been that way. Other than the new regulation for financial institutions to provide aggregated total inflow and outflow, what new regulations are being proposed with the IRS "dragnet". Are we talking about expanding it to paypal, venmo, bitcoin, and other cashless accounts (not that it's not already expanded - I haven't kept up with all the tax regulations).

    I think society going cashless will help the IRS capture more "missed" tax so that could be an argument for staying put and not make any changes. But at the same time, there are significant tax cheats across the boards - from small to large. I can support reasonable changes to close those holes. Heck politically, I think the Biden admin should say, we will close the tax cheats holes and reduce everyone tax by the additional revenue captured by closing those holes - but they aren't going to do that. Instead, they are using that "tax cheat" fund for infrastructure, which isn't bad.
     
    Os Trigonum likes this.
  13. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    good points all. the details to the Biden plan are detailed more fully at the linked document from the article:

    https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/The-American-Families-Plan-Tax-Compliance-Agenda.pdf

    I have not read the document.
     
  14. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    Vague threat gonna vague threat.

    Typical theme on tax subject. Conflate two different thoughts unto one; wealthy using what some deem to be unfair tax breaks vs tax evasion. Only stupid rich people evade taxes, so obviously original thread topic is disingenuous.

    Biden is simply priming the system for CBDCs
     
  15. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    bitcoin fixes this
     
  16. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    SG is the frog getting unknowingly boiled
     
  17. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    How do you think corporations, of a federal nature, that issue depository insurance examine the solvency of regulated depository institutions, Carnac the Maginificent?
     
    Nook likes this.
  18. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    When I'm the one who is telling you that you're about to be dinner?
     
  19. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Tax the Rich
     
  20. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    An intellectually dishonest article posted by a known moderate Democrat? Tell me it ain't so...
     

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