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Springer/Reddick vs Tucker/Straw

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by jim1961, Apr 2, 2021.

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Will 2020 Springer/Reddick or 2021 Tucker/Straw have the higher OPS?

  1. 2020 Springer/Reddick

    45 vote(s)
    60.8%
  2. 2021 Tucker/Straw

    29 vote(s)
    39.2%
  1. SuraGotMadHops

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    It kind of reminds me of Derek Fisher scoring from second on Bregman's single in Game 5.
     
    King1 likes this.
  2. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Arm strength isn't the only measure of an arm... there are plenty of players with strong arms that either take forever to get rid of the ball or are not accurate. Barry Bonds did not have a strong arm, he did have an accurate arm though and he got rid of the ball quickly as well..... having said that, I do think that arm strength as a tool is overrated as it really should be wrapped up in general defense.
     
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  3. sealclubber1016

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    The entire "tool" concept is pretty stupid. It's one thing to look for physical abilities that you think will be good at the highest levels (makes perfect sense), but to pick these 5 and weight them equally makes no sense. Why are hitting and fielding, which requires many different abilities, grouped with simple raw abilities like speed and arm strength.

    One could very easily argue that Jake Marisnick had the same amount of tools as Barry Bonds on the 5 tool checklist.
     
  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Agreed. I would say it is like the mythical unicorn; but to this day some scouts still swear by it.
     
  5. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    Tucker: .294/.359/.557 for a .917 OPS
    Straw: .271/.349/.348 for a .696 OPS

    Tucker bested 2020 Springer and Straw bested 2020 Reddick, so they are the clear winners here. Of course McCormick/Meyers/Siri all ended up with better OPS then Straw
     
  6. sealclubber1016

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    Tucker blew my (and most peoples) expectations for him out of the water. The CF production was maybe slightly better than I hoped for, but mostly near where expected from Straw.

    Chas and Meyers weren't even on the radar.
     
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  7. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Teams do not rate the tools equally. Having more perceived tools is helpful for prospects as if the evaluation of one tool is off/doesn't translate, the prospect may still be a MLB player with other tools playing (e.g., SS/CF prospects that can hit are usually rated higher than bat-only prospects). At the MLB level, number of tools doesn't matter as projection is not as important as production, and a one or two-tool player can still be better than more well rounded players (See Alvarez).
     
    #227 Joe Joe, Oct 4, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
  8. sealclubber1016

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    I obviously know teams don't weigh them equally.

    Why isn't agility a tool, or acceleration, or quick hands. Scouts know and value these things, but they aren't "one of the five tools" The fact that they picked these 5 random things, 2 of which aren't raw physical abilities. It's a stupid grouping and a dumb checklist.
     
  9. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    I think a lot of teams probably list those three tools as a subset of the 5 main tools. Do you honestly think these 5 tools are random? Simone Biles probably scores very highly on those three tools you listed, but probably can't play baseball at the major league level.
     
  10. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    So, will next years be:

    Will */* OPS be better than Correa/Maldonaldo
     
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  11. sealclubber1016

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    Why are they a subset?

    Acceleration is no less, probably more valuable than speed. Agility has nothing to do with any of them.

    Why are hands and bat speed just grouped as "hit for average" and not tools themselves.

    Why are these 5 "the tools"
     
  12. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    You think Maldonado is leaving?
     
  13. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    He's a FA, so its possible.
     
  14. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    They signed him to a 5 million contract for 2022 plus a 4 million team option for 2023 ($500,000 buyout)
     
  15. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Because those 5 tools are generally accepted as the best ways to measure a player by scouts, and are an easy way to communicate between people in a meaningful manner. 2 tools measure what a player does at the plate (contact and power). One measures what he does on bases after hitting the ball. One tool measures how well a player gets to the ball and fields the ball to make outs. One tool measures how well a player makes outs/prevents baserunners from advancing once he has the ball. Other than plate discipline (though some include this with hit tool), the 5 tools measure most of what players do to make an impact on the game.

    The speed tool is usually measured as the ability to advance from one base (or the plate) to the next base(s) (i.e., the speed tool is a measure of baserunning and is not a simple distance divided time measurement though 60 yard dash time is usually a good approximation for the speed tool). Why is acceleration as important or more than using instincts, acceleration, and top speed to advance bases? The speed tool was usually based on home to first speed with points added or deducted for how well player ran other bases.

    Agility as a physical attribute is needed for hit (adjust bat to make contact), power (adjust bat to make hard contact), speed (being fluid turns acceleration and speed into useful baserunning such as 1st to third), fielding (Ozzie Smith was an agile SS), and throw (Correa is very agile in how he can get from fielding the ball to multiple throwing platforms) tools.
     
    #235 Joe Joe, Oct 4, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
  16. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    #236 jim1961, Oct 4, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
  17. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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