What will it take to make you seriously consider an EV?

I have 36.77 Tesla stock and do not plan on selling that nor my Nio for a long long long time. I have wondered how that car was so popular with the way it looks before. I mean google it many people think it is ugly many people do not. Or perhaps many don't love the way it looks but don't mind much and love the other aspects. Who knows

 

lol bro why are you so upset? geezus man.

I am not sure why tesla fanbois can't realize other car companies succeeding with EVs is good for the overall car industry and .....well the climate.

I realize you made a lot of money on TSLA and you are now forever in debt to singing their praise but all I am saying is one particular model they sell is hideous. People buy ugly things all the time because some people dont care about looks. Why else would someone buy an Aztec? or a Murano convertible?

It would make for a pretty boring car market if everyone drove 1 car.

 

I don't mind the looks of the Model Y. It has kind of a Porsche Cayenne vibe.

 

Not only would other EVs succeeding be good for the industry and environment etc, it would be good for Tesla. The greatest impediment Tesla is facing today is not some imaginary threat of competition that some would have you believe, it is of people choosing a gas car over an EV which the vast majority of people still do. It’s of the misconception of “range anxiety” even though on average people drive less than 50 miles a day and can wake up with a full change every morning. With more EVs succeeding, the entire industry grows and becomes more mainstream. Tesla doesn’t need 80% of people choosing it (which is the case today in the US), it needs 20% of people choosing it, while 100% are choosing an EV of some kind. That’s a future that will see Tesla thrive and grow by leaps and bounds.

So my point is I would celebrate actual competition that drives the industry forward.

But in reality, we have legacy oems dragging their feet and offering the bare minimum to avoid emissions fines. We have Chinese players that will thrive due to the ccp’s backing but are actual scum with business practices. Xpev stole Tesla IP and pushed out their own “autopilot” copycat, based on outdated code mind you, and got sued for it. The crazy lady posing as an unhappy customer that caused a viral media sht storm that hurt Tesla China sales earlier in the year turned out to have Nio connections. I would expect nothing less from the Chinese.

From what I can see now VW is the legacy player most genuinely pushing for EV, in no small part because they got caught cheating emissions so now they have no other choice. The ID.4 has been competitive sales wise in Europe, but only because they are locally made and not subjected to tariffs that give it a 20% cost advantage vs Tesla. When Tesla Berlin comes online we are back on level playing field and the best car will dominate again. In China I actually like BYD, the Buffet backed one, the most. The ccp is dead set on becoming the auto leader of the next generation so they should all do well, meanwhile back home sleepy Joe is so far up union payroll that he can’t even bring himself to even once say the name of the American company that is the global industry leader, much less support it.

Yes it’s true I made a lot of money on Tesla, but no I do not feel indebted to them, I shorted their stock earlier in the year after the s&p inclusion stuff got too out of whack. I am indebted to myself for putting in the hours and doing the research to figure out how the industry will play out, figuring out the hard truths when every media publication was saying this is a sht company about to go bankrupt and that competition was going to kill it ever since 2008. Having the acuity to decipher what is bullsht and what is fact. No man, I don’t owe Tesla a ******* thing, that trade was one of the hardest and most counterintuitive that I’ve had to sit through. I got here being rational, and being right, not by being blind. And that’s still the case today in what I say now.

 

Also I am not upset. Apologies if it came off that way.

 

Model Y is like that girl in Seinfeld that is hot in some light and completely hideous in others.

 

There were 5, and nobody said they did like the way it looked. Not even you.

I mentioned the Prius for that reason. It was incredibly popular, but it wasn't because it looked good. It was because it was fuel efficient, roomy, and some people enjoy that it is easily recognizable. Heck, I have a pre-order for the Cybertruck, just in case I'm not thrilled with the final F-150 Lightning pricing and specs for what I want, but the Cybetruck is beyond ugly. An attractive vehicle isn't near the top of my list. My wife still gets mad that when the sales guy asked which color I wanted for my Civic I said anything that isn't white or black.

 

So very true. I look at the pictures and it looks fine, then I see one on the road and it just looks plain awful as it drives by.

 

I don’t have a problem with the way the model y and model 3 look, they look the same to me. I think Porsches look the best out of all the mainstream cars, and the 3 and y take cues from that. It’s the s and the x that I dislike in terms of looks. The original S had a godawful fake grill, which thankfully they got rid of eventually. But even now I don’t know why they have that weird slit and dog nose instead of smooth front like the 3/y.

Overall I don’t think any of the Teslas are horrendous looking, which is what I was responding to. But, opinions. I would agree though that exterior design is by far the weakest element of the entire product. Franz Holzhausen, their designer was an ex Mazda guy, so from the legacy car world. I would much rather have a tech guy in charge with more bold, futuristic designs. Although I think they wanted to be more traditional off the bat as a startup so to not scare people off. Now they have the clout to really be more different. Then again…Cybertruck.

 

Plaid S vs Mach E vs Audi Q5 gas car in a road trip comparison. Really shows how the Mach E, and really any EV currently besides a Tesla is a nonstarter for most people.

One critique of the video as the comments pointed out, he should have charged both the EVs overnight at the hotel they were staying at which is how it would have gone in a real life usecase. That would have closed the gap between the two EVs and the Audi even more. Also it should be pointed out that on a road trip that most would take once or twice a year you lose an hour or so in your Tesla vs gas car, you make up for over the lifetime of the vehicle by saving the time you never have to go to a gas station to fill up again and waking up with a full charge everyday.

edit: to be clear it wasn’t even the Mach e’s fault, but rather the terrible third party charging network that every EV besides Tesla has to rely on.

 

Informative video. Didn’t realize third party chargers were so unreliable. I disagree that charging at hotels overnight would have been more realistic, a lot of hotels do not have charging, and if they did they have 2 chargers max and who knows if they are being occupied. I wouldn’t rely on that.

one thing that a comment on the video noted was stress. When driving an ev you spend your road trip thinking about your next charge, or you are trying to make it to your next stop running low on battery. When driving an ICE you are care free on the road which is how it should be. There is value to not having any added stress.

last thing is Tesla overstating their mileage. You saw that Tesla’s 350 mile rated range is the same as the mustangs 300 mile range. That’s a joke. It means that Tesla is lying to customers.

when the non-Tesla electric charging infrastructure gets more reliable, or if non Tesla cars can start using Superchargers, then I see other evs surpassing Tesla

 

All things speced are stated at optimal conditions. Are you stating Tesla's 350 mile rated range is closer to 280?

 

In real world usage yes. My M3 SR+ is advertised at 250 miles in range, is now showing only 225 miles due to 10% degradation, and I bet you I could get only 190 miles of real distance if I were driving it.

There's multiple levels of false advertisement from Tesla

1. EPA rating in optimal conditions which no one will achieve
2. Battery degradation in the 1st year, no one at Tesla mentions this
3. If you charge to 100% it hurts your battery even more, so they only recommend charging to 80-90%, which again, makes the rated 250 mile range a completely useless figure.

Bottom line is do NOT trust Tesla at all when it comes to range, your real day to day usage range is unquestionably significantly lower than what Tesla advertises.


The new Model 3 LRP battery which should be charged to 100% is a huge improvement.

 

You are less stressed in a gas car because the gas station network is fully built out after 100 years. As more superchargers get built every day that issue goes away. Also in a Tesla the software preplans the entire route for you, including where you need to go charge and for how long (and how many stalls are available). It is as much (or as little) stress as you want there to be, if you want to push for time and skip charging then it will be more stress, take it easy and charge more often then less stress.

Tesla does not overstate, or state at all, their range. The EPA is in charge of testing and reproducing the range for all cars, then allows manufacturers to advertise it. The reason why Teslas can come short of the rated range, especially the one in this video, is because of their power output being far greater than other EVs. The plaid that was driven in the video is 1000 hp, 0-60 in 1.99 sec. Your range is going to be dependent on how you are driving, if you are driving your Plaid like a rocket, and trying to race the other two cars like they were doing in the video, then of course the range you will get is less.

The last thing is third party charging catching up. This is the same logic of the “competition is coming” that assumes Tesla will be standing still. There’s this delusion that’s been sold to the public that all these oems are pushing EVs, when like I keep saying, in reality they are only doing the bare minimum to satisfy emissions standards. This is the same with charging infrastructure. It’s is a chicken and egg thing, without charging consumers will not want EVs, but without EVs being sold at volume no oem wants to commit and build out a costly charging network. They are all sitting on their hands hoping the federal government, aka taxpayers, will bail them out and build the network for them.

Meanwhile, Tesla is the one building out their own charging network that is integrated with their product to assure consistent and reliable service. They are the ones with v3 superchargers charging at 300kw capacity and 500mi an hour charge speeds. Tesla is one innovating in charging technology and scaling network buildout.

The largest third party charging network, Electrify America, was created by Volkswagen as a condition and penalty for settling in court over the emissions cheating. Meaning this is not some dedicated network trying to push the industry forward or innovate, it was forced to be built as a penalty. That’s why it’s conditions are so poor with no upkeep. That’s Tesla’s competition.

 

Teslas has been around for 10 years and the battery degradation curve has been well tested. The first year has the highest degradation and levels off significantly afterwards. After 200k miles it degrades 10% total, far better than any other EV.

https://insideevs.com/news/525820/tesla-battery-capacity-retention-90/

 

“A lot of hotels do not have charging”

That’s why on an ev road trip you plan and stay at the ones that do. Also more and more hotels are getting charging.

 

1. every single oem advertises the government mandated epa rating
2. every single oem doesn’t advertise battery degradation. Tesla has by far the best degradation curve in its batteries
3. you should not change your battery to 100% in any EV. This is not unique to Tesla

None of this is “false advertising”. It is standard in all EVs. False advertising is when GM doesn’t tell you Bolts will spontaneously explode.

 

Y'all got him going now...

 

Mercedes has said that by 2030 all of their cars will be EVs, Volkswagen has said similar. The charging network will come, the government will play a role in this too. Also, who knows if they pull an EU and force Tesla to open up superchargers for other cars, if that happens Tesla's advantage goes away.

 

Not true, sure it's nice that a hotel has charging, but you are not paying $50 more a night for charging. Most people when booking hotels they book for price and how nice the hotels are, charging is a bonus but not a real part of decision making.