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Sources: Many top NBA players hesitant to promote coronavirus vaccines

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by JumpMan, Feb 17, 2021.

  1. Salvy

    Salvy Member

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    Are you aware of the vaccine mechanism? Its not even a vaccine dude.... And have vaccinated not died? So it does not work? Vaccinated have died, I still think the vaccine works....
     
  2. Salvy

    Salvy Member

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    There have been many options that have been effective on some and not on others, or like you say just get the vaccine... Problem is the vaccine itself is not as effective either, and construct of it does inspire confidence. Not for me at least.
     
  3. lakersuck2

    lakersuck2 Member

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    Yes I am completely aware of vaccine mechanism. I just gave a presentation on it a few weeks ago. Are you referring to the mRNA vaccines like the Pfizer one? What exactly makes it not a vaccine in your eyes? I'm actually legitimately interested please let me see your side.
     
  4. Salvy

    Salvy Member

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    So it be unfair for me to give you scientific or medical explanation without having a scientific or medical background. My opinion is mainly based off of close medical acquaintances, one of which is my gf a med student in Argentina and hopefully soon a Doctor here in the states... I'm not going to try and repeat a technical explanation. What I have gotten from their explanations is the current vaccine is modifying our DNA in order to strengthen our immune system into fending off the virus....

    A vaccine, like the flu shot is an introduction of the virus into our immune system in order to strengthen our immune system and fend off from future attacks....

    I may be totally and 100% off, but here is the current CDC definition of the Covid 19 vaccine....

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm

    "Vaccine: A preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but some can be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose."

    And here is the CDC website from August 24
    https://web.archive.org/web/20210824024512/https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm

    "Vaccine: A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but can also be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose."


    They changed it to better fir the current vaccine vs what a vaccine actually is..... What are your thoughts?
     
  5. lakersuck2

    lakersuck2 Member

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    For transparency I'm a cell and molecular biology PhD candidate at UNLV. Your GF's explanation is a bit off. Nothing against her but MDs in general are often more attuned to whole body health and so their training in molecular mechanisms might not be so robust if it's not particularly their area of expertise.

    Your simple definition of a vaccine is mostly correct except that it doesn't have to be the whole virus introduced but even just a small but easily recognizable part of it so that the immune system can easily detect the virus later on in case it runs into it again. Now, the main issue is in your understanding of how the mRNA vaccines work. It doesnt alter your DNA, it's simply mRNA (which are basically the condensed, ready to read instructions to create a singular protein) and cannot reintegrate into the host genome without the help of an outside enzyme like reverse tranacriptase. All the mRNA does in this case is that it replaces the role that the viral protein would take in a traditional vaccine. It does this because it allows your cell to produce the viral protein itself making it more stable and at higher amounts than would be introduced simply by adding it in the vaccine. Note that just a viral protein by itself can't hurt you if it doesn't have the other components of the virus. So at the end of the day, it's still doing what an old school vaccine would, just more efficiently.

    Also, if you're worried about the mRNA vaccines, there are old school covid vaccines available like the Chinese ones, they're just less effective.
     
  6. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    I’m not sure why you are dismissing data that I just posted. The vaccines are effective against preventing infection, reducing transmission and preventing severe infections. We have data to show that. Monoclonal antibodies are roughly as effective at preventing severe covid and we have data to show that.

    It’s fine if you don’t want to take the shots but to say that it isn’t effective is a bit odd especially after posting the picture that you did. The vaccines/shots/prophylactic shots (whatever term you want to give them) are not perfect but the data is very clear that they do help significantly.
     
  7. JumpMan

    JumpMan Contributing Member
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    For real. Imagine if he isn't vaccinated and he can't play any home games?
     
    Jontro likes this.
  8. Salvy

    Salvy Member

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    I'm not arguing against the vaccine, I liked your comment because I feel its helpful to the community. However I don't like the set up, you have a PhD and the knowledge that could be very helpful. Not sure anyone was aware we had a molecular biologist among us. Maybe you put it out there and I missed it. Maybe you don't want it out there, maybe your experience and education was not meant for a basketball forum.

    Either way, I don't feel like I was way off when saying I don't believe its not even a vaccine. By your own statement, "at the end of the day, its still doing what an old school vaccine would, just more efficiently" it seems like you don't see it as a vaccine, a traditional one at least.

    And that's fine, I'm not here to challenge you or anyone... But I don't believe the vaccine is the only solution, perhaps it may be the best one in the future. I hope it is. I would like it to be. I have no pledge to any medication and am not putting it against any vaccine from pfizer to sinovac.

    I think people should have the freedom of choice, but the vaccine keeps getting pushed as the only option.... This thread itself is about why NBA players are hesitant to promote the vaccine. Its viewed as a no brainer and a must, everyone should be vaccinated. I don't think so. Do you?
     
  9. Salvy

    Salvy Member

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    I never said it is not effective, it is... I even said most of my family is vaccinated with no side effects which is one of the biggest complaints people have and not the actual effectiveness of the vaccine. I've just stated there are other options, they also have data and shown effectiveness and sometimes even more than the vaccine. Israel is seeing new variants it seems and will need a 3rd dose. Same here and pretty soon, some places are treating it purely with ivermectin due mainly to cost and seeing good results.
     
  10. lakersuck2

    lakersuck2 Member

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    I have mentioned it once before but, like you said, it's not really relevant to a basketball forum so there's not really a reason to bring it up. I'm here to meme and talk hoops for the most part.

    Anyways, I was being democratic when I was saying it wasn't a traditional vaccine. It most definitely is a vaccine. The first vaccines were Edward Jenner literally cutting off smallpox sores from sick people, grinding it into a powder and stuffing that up people's noses. The technology evolves over time and this is just the next, better evolution.

    I do understand your sentiments and I do value the freedom of choice, definitely. It's just that so far, I haven't seen any rationalization for the choice not to take a vaccine that isn't built on misinformation and plain bullshit. I'm sorry but to me, it absolutely is a no brainer. Unless you have an underlying condition that makes you physically unable to be vaccinated, then there is absolutely no scientific reason for you not to get one. Full stop.

    I do agree with you that this isn't the absolute final solution to this whole thing though. At the end of the day, what the vaccine does is enable your body to deal with the virus more effectively. You can still get it and you can still spread it but at least your body kills it much faster and before it can do major harm to you. If we really want to get rid of it for good then immediate detection followed by quarantine similar to what New Zealand has been doing is the best way but I don't really think that would fly here. Vaccination isn't the be all end all to eliminate covid, but it does help us live with a semblance of normalcy in a world where covid is inevitable.

    Also, I saw your other comment and it seems that your point may be that you think that eventually, prevention might not be enough and so treatment should also be prioritized. I agree there. Maybe one day a real anti covid drug will be developed. Maybe some other existing drug will be found to cure covid. But the horse dewormer just isn't it. It's already been proven experimentally. If you accidentally eat dog meat and end up with ringworms it's great but taking it, especially the formulation for animals, for covid just isn't it.
     
    #130 lakersuck2, Sep 3, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
  11. TRIQSTER

    TRIQSTER Contributing Member

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    Thanks for dropping that knowledge
     
    Slyonebluejay and lakersuck2 like this.
  12. Juxtaposed Jolt

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    I don't understand what you're arguing, here. You've said multiple times throughout this thread that the vaccine has been effective through first-hand knowledge (family members) yet you keep pushing for other options - why? If a car can get you from point A to point B, and you've had experience driving in and sitting in a car from point A to point B...why are you recommending people go for another vehicle? I get freedom of choice or whatever, but you've had nothing but positive experiences with the vaccine. There's no reason to recommend another choice, yet you seem set on recommending Ivermectin. Why?

    In this thread so far, you've posted a screenshot of what you think the CDC doesn't want us to know (that refugee post) but don't seem to realize that it's literally about parasitic infections - not ones that are viral, in nature. You've stated that Ivermectin works and is more effective than the vaccine(s) specifically made for Covid-19. You got defensive and felt set up when someone revealed themselves as a PhD candidate, when they were only doing so to further legitimize their point of view. These are all very odd actions.

    Aside from your anecdotal evidence that Ivermectin works and is more effective than the vaccine, where are the studies that show this?
     
    Deckard likes this.
  13. Salvy

    Salvy Member

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    I haven't recommend Ivermectin over the vaccine, I haven't said the vaccine does not work. I've posted links from the CDC recommending Ivermectin to people not Horses, while social media platforms are set on making everyone believe that Ivermectin is for Horses and farm animals.

    I'm not defensive over an expert revealing himself as a PhD, I did express it felt like a set up because he could have made the same exact post without asking someone about something he is an expert on. While I was not spot on, I was not way off either. And my post was never meant to influence, educate or promote any option.

    I am merely stating that there are other options, I think some people especially those who are in constant contact with others should get vaccinated. They should also wear n95 masks not surgical ones. Thankfully, I'm self employed and am rarely in contact with people outside of my family. I am not safe, no one is. I wear a mask even thou I'm against mask mandates. I am also against this vaccine push, not because I hate the vaccine. Mainly because I don't feel its the only route.

    Here is a link to some studies, https://ivmmeta.com/

    I've also seen remdesivir be effective and doctor prescribed locally here in Houston with someone I know.

    I'm not arguing with anyone, or challenging anyone but I do think we shouldn't be forced to go one route when there are other's that don't involve a very quickly and possibly rushed vaccine. Perhaps very very safe, and dangerous in a very small amount of cases as any other vaccine. But some people should still have the freedom to chose without getting called ignorant or stupid....
     
  14. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
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    This reads as If it was written by the Zodiac Killer.

    Truly terrifying, but not too unexpected coming from an anti-vaxxer.
     
    Rockets FTW likes this.
  15. Downtown Sniper

    Downtown Sniper Contributing Member

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    Anti-vaxxer... Gets vaxxed.

    Even when being hilariously wrong is thrown in your face, you still sit there like a clown.

    Some people really are braindead in their beliefs.

    I'm having a good chuckle at you right now though.
     
  16. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    i've seen on yahoo, CNN, and now here repeated over and over HORSE DEWORMER!! HORSE DEWORMER!!

    let's establish some facts for the record... ivermectin was approved for use in people by the FDA 23 years ago and that approval has yet to be retracted. it's a basic ionophore that facilliates zinc entry into cells. the 2015 nobel prize for medicine was awarded to its 2 researchers. it's being applied as an anti-viral, anti-TB, and yes anti-covid. ie. india and now japan are using it to treat covid, despite conflicting studies pro and against it's use. whether it's effective or not remains to be seen, but it is cheap and safe. undoubtedly too cheap for big pharma's liking
     
    Gioan Baotixita likes this.
  17. percicles

    percicles Contributing Member

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    Cedric Ceballos is in ICU over Covid-19.
     
  18. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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  19. tycoonchip

    tycoonchip Member
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    Soooo these shots don't increase your penis length and girth? Doh!
     
  20. jbond77

    jbond77 Contributing Member

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    look if youre a millionaire, wouldn't you consider waiting out the "science" until you know you won't damage your career, millionaires playing for billionaires, lets understand a human can make a choice for themselves on their own private medical history without shooting up on a NBA publicity shot that will haunt them for the rest of their lives no matter how it all turns out! SEGREGATION IS WRONG #NOSEGREGATION LET PEOPLE PLAY BALL!
     

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