Well, seeing that it was videotaped, yes they would be lying or mistaken. So far the amount of flat out falsehoods and lies around this by the right wing side has been absurd.... from claims he was sleeping, to the helicopter and many others....... and they all are unnecessary as well as there was plenty of ammo to use with how the withdraw began.... now the credibility of the right is compromised.
Exactly - it's clear that the Trump organization made things worse by (1) negotiating a peace agreement without involving the secular Afghan government that we were relying on to maintain order once we left and (2) creating a bureaucratic blockade that prevented getting many of our Afghan allies receiving visas. Biden made the stupid decision to leave by August 31 without ensuring these two outstanding issues were resolved, and he deserves criticism and even scorn for this. But the real poison pill was invading Afghanistan in the first place - given that the original goal (overthrowing the Taliban) would inevitably leave a power vacuum and our government had no viable plan for filling that vacuum, everything that we've seen was pretty much inevitable.
Yea, that's good for most of us. But man, I think it goes beyond politics. There is a new cultural thing for a good segment of the population where facts ultimately do not matter and with that, why does it need to be factual in the first place. I know too many people who stick to lies after the fact. And with that, I think unethical individuals, politicians, and media will continue to push tweets and articles that fit their narrative before even doing a quick cursory check or a thought - hmm, does that makes sense.
Biden telling the afghan Prez to tell everyone that the taliban is under control is eerily similar to what he told all of us. He knew more than he is claiming. The quick takeover was not surprising to anyone here so I am sure he knew as well.
Yes, I think they are aware of repurcussions. I'm a lot more doubtful though, that they've really changed. Unfortunately, though, our current strategy seems completely dependent on that being the case. Especially since they understand leverage too...and what is their biggest leverage AGAINST us using lethal force on them? Having Americans and others still there. They know that. So, without a sufficient carrot, not in their best interest to quickly let them go.
I don't think they've changed much and will regress back to their oppressive ways in a few years without foreign engagement. I'm old enough to remember when they would make proclamations about women (after they locked down their own) and destroy priceless religious statues (idolatry etc) that the media covered. But that's not really why we invaded Afghanistan and why we will continue to amortize its costs for 20+ years to come. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If the Taliban oppresses their people long enough, they will eventually be fed up. The 20 year invasion has only accomplished recruitment material for groups like ISIS and the Taliban where the Taliban now is in good standing with large swaths of Afghani people. That's what a 20 year invasion that cost around 40,000 civilian casualties will do. Imagine the sphere of influence for each of those 40 thousand and the massive web of pissed off people at this country.
I have read about the phone call and I have seen the quotes. I don't see anything that Biden said that was terrible, if anything he was extremely measured. If any criticism, it is that Biden did not seem to think that the collapse would happen as fast as it did because the troop advantage by the Afghan President. I don't know if Biden knew more than he is claiming.... I am not even sure that it is good or bad if he did. If he truly was told by the state department and military that the Afghanistan President and military would survive longer; then that is an intelligence failure of epic proportions and we need to look at why we are spending the amount of money and effort on the military and intelligence community and getting inferior production. If Biden did no more, why would he possibly tell the President of Afghanistan or necessarily anyone else if there were national security reasons. Seems to me the best criticism of Biden is to claim that he initially fumbled the logistics of the withdraw.... instead some are going to down weird roads with things that are patently false (watch, helicopter, etc) or claiming that the President had some sort of sinister plan or reason.
Seemed like the assurances from bribed warlords went hollow when it was more than clear the Taliban would resume control. I mean, they live there and have something to lose. What better way to prove allegiances and save some of your skin.
I think the Afghan president's reaction was very telling in response to biden asking him to portray a rosier outlook. He knew they were getting stomped and was trying to be polite to Biden's request. I agree that biden was very measured during this conversation.
It was clear after 20 years that all of the work done was just a mirage. I'm glad Biden didn't extend the window past the 31st because it would have just cost more American lives by breaking the agreement. Conservatives don't really care about the Afghans or the Kurds and it is amusing watching Biden follow through on a decidedly America First policy.
That I don't doubt at all.... the Afghan President was on the ground, he also knew that the soldiers would not fight.
I haven't heard much about the call but had the displeasure at lunch to have FOX news (aka: the brainwashing channel) on at the deli and Kelly Ann and her team of Trump Cults were acting like it was illegal and should be investigated......I figured 99.999% of what I heard was outlandish lies
I didn't read anything that was remotely illegal. Biden was extremely measured, he even wouldn't bad mouth other leaders when the Afghan President did. Biden told the Afghan President that he needed to come up with a plan if he wanted any help and he told the Afghan President that the perception was that the Afghan government would fall soon and that should not happen with 300,000 troops and that he needed to project more optimism or confidence even if he didn't believe it because it wouldn't help keeping the area from falling.
Rhetoric? Just look at his travel schedule and what his aides said lol. Sounds like you are the one that doesn't actually know much about what he did on a day to day basis. Think about this - the president was very responsive to things on twitter - within minutes - throughout the day. What kind of focused hard working person can do that???
Leaving Americans there, behind enemy lines, is America first? ?? ???? You become the authoritarian on what conservatives do or don't think about...when? Please do share your credentials on that. FWIW, it's pretty clear, though, that BIDEN doesn't care at all about the Afghans, and in particular, the Afghans that helped us. Making that a really interesting statement on your part.
LOL, and you probably think the other channels aren't, despite MASSIVE evidence to the contrary. Keep in mind the spinning of the Russia Hoax for years...as just one example. If you still don't know that was a hoax, then keep in mind that you don't know what you're talking about, too. Proving the point about the brainwashing of the other channels and outlets, as well.
