Francis in the same class as the Big O, Magic & Grant Hill

Hill was on another level. He didn't have Steve's major flaws. I think most teams would take a healthy Hill over Steve.

 

Another level of what? Both teams have about the same out of wins after the players' first four seasons, and they have similar stats, and played with similar talent. What pushes Hill over the top BBIQ. Well I'll take Steve's heart, because Hill's was questioned a lot, and you can have Hill's BBIQ.

 

You can always take the stats that are favorable to your argument. Now, you are using wins. If it was Dwayne Wade, I bet you would be talking about points and assists, not playoff victories. Of course when it's Brand you bring up playoffs.

What pushes Hill over the top is his overall game, his ability to make good decisions, his transition game, etc. And when you say BBIQ, you really mean good decisions, mainly at the end of the game. If your best player makes poor decisions consistently you'll never accomplish much.

 

What did Hill accomplish. They have similar stats and similar wins playing with similar talent but everyone acts like Hill was championship contender. I think it was Hill's play at the end of games that his critics questioned.

 

Just because he never got far in the playoffs doesn't exactly mean he is the same talent as everyone else who got nowhere. Like I said, I am looking at his whole game, not just how far he got in the playoffs.

 

Let's put it this way. If you ask GMs around the league which player they want, pre-injury Hill or Francis, none of them would pick Francis.

 

And you know this because?????????????

 

Don't forget that Hill is a great versatile defender also. He's one of the greatest most consistent penetrators the game have ever seen. He's just so much smoother and more polish than Stevie there's no comparison. He was a superstar before his injury...IMO, Stevie is a notch or two below.

 

Detroit Pistons won 54 games in 1996-1997 season, which is a lot more than 46 wins. That's a damn good season. They lost out to a tough Atlanta Hawks team that year, which had Mookie Blaylock, Steve Smith, and Christian Laettner (who actually made the All Star team deservedly so that year). They won 46 games in 1995-1996, which was like an 18 game improvement the year before.

What actually gets lost is that after the 1996 season, Allan Houston left to New York with a crazy contract. A duo with Houston and Hill could have made some noise for years to come. Make no mistake about it. Grant Hill was a great, great player. His only problem was that his supporting cast was constantly changing.

Just because he never got out of the first round, it shouldn't tarnish the kind of player he was. It was idiotic when people bashed KG for getting knocked out the playoffs 7 years straight. It was idiotic for people wanting to trade Hakeem and bashing him when he failed to get the Rockets past the 1st round 5 years straight (1988-1992). The Rockets were swept 4 straight years (1988-1991) during that time and the failed to make the playoffs in 1992.

Grant Hill was a great player which a dynamic first step. He didn't have a good jumper his 1st 5 years in the league, yet he always got to the rim by driving to his right. You know you are good when you do the same things over and over and people just can't stop you. Averaged 9.8 rebounds one season and 7.3 assists another. Arguably the 2nd best small forward in the last 15 years, which is pretty damn good.

 

Steve Francis in the same class as The Big 'O' and Magic? I've heard it all now. Man, people will just make things up to hype up players these days. Next thing you know they'll tell us that Steve and Wilt took 2 dumps before gametime so they must be similar players.

 

all of this and a quarter will get you a pack of gum.

 

Hill has named to the all NBA 1st team and the all NBA second team. Steve's never even been to an All NBA 3rd team...what does that tell ya?

 

Steve is grouped into a positive statistical catagory with only three other players in nba history an we still find ways to bash and critisize. If Steve isn't that good name me another recent playing point that has acomplished the same in their first years. Even the "GREAT" J Kid didn't get it done. So we can only expect Steve to get better like all points do the older and more experience they get. Give steve his do props and take pride that he has done this as a rox.

Name one other rox point in the last 15 years you like to have instead of Francis

 

pgabriel clearly didn't watch Hill play.

In his last season in Detroit, he was scoring 30 points regulalry. When I mean regulalry, I mean for the second half of the season, he was scoring 30 points as easily as Francis is scoring his 16ppg.

I can't believe how easily people forgot about Grant Hill. Absolutely amazing player.

 

Cool. Maybe in 3 more years and he'll be able to run a fast break worth a damn.



As others in this thread have stated, SF isn't in the same class as those other players. But he puts up stats. Okay, that's nice, someone give him a cookie.

 

It’s nice that Steve is versatile, but I just don’t see how 20/6/6 is such a big deal. 20 points is above average compared to other star players. 6 assists is above average for guards and 6 rebounds is good for a guard. So what does that say? He’s above average or good in 3 aspects, but not particularly GREAT at any one thing.

I think the player that excels in one particular aspect of the game goes further then the player that is merely better than average at a lot of different things.

I would rather have a player that gets 20/12rpg/2aps or 20/10apg/2rpg or 25/4/4 over a player that gets 20/6/6 any day. I can’t remember ever thinking “Boy those 6 assists really won us the game” or “those 6 rebounds are why we won”. However, I can think of several occasions where a player dominating the boards or racking up a bunch of assists were key to victories.

It’s just like in a real world situation, the guy that specializes in something and is better at doing it than anyone else is going to have MUCH more success than the guy that is simply above average at a lot of things.

 

Because Hill was considered easily a top 10 player, probably a top 5 player at times, year in and year out.

 

I'm surprised how quickly we forget about players of the past. Grant Hill was an absolutely amazing player, he could do it all on the court. The thing that I loved was that he was so much in control of what he was doing out there, yes, he was a smooth player.

When I watch Steve play and I see the stat line at the end of the game, I'm like "How the hell did he get those numbers?" It's probably because I remember the boneheaded plays more than the ones where he actually does something good for the team. I don't know, 20 6 6 just doesn't stand out to me. Don't get me wrong, those are good numbers, but are they really that impressive? I just think 26 points and 11 boards and say 1 or 2 assists stands out more.

 

What players were still in the league when Hill came out. Jordan, Shaq, Olajuwon, Stocton, Malone, Pippen, Payton, Kidd, Kemp, McDyess, David Robinson, etc.

I can easily argue that Hill wasn't in the top ten when he was still an effective player.

 

If you're talking about first season, then yes. But towards the end of his Pistons days, he was a top 10 lock, probable top 5.

Francis never even approached this plateau in any of his 5 seasons.