There was no happy ending for this scenario, it was going to a f'd up situation no matter what. And I agree, they should have severed this a long time ago... Now it's just a political stain of woulda, coulda, shoulda... T_Man
I think history is going to look back very kindly on Biden's decision to follow through with the planned withdrawal. I wonder if him living through the end of Vietnam as a young adult played into his actions. "American troops cannot and should not be fighting in a war and dying in a war that Afghan forces are not willing to fight for themselves." - President Biden I'm one of his biggest critics on the left but he is abso-f***ing-lutely right here. My only wish is that he had done this a decade ago (not that he had the power), but better late than never.
This is what this racist with maggots for brains said in 1975 after The Fall of Saigon “ Why should we let these refugees in? America don’t owe them anything “. If this racist fukk had his way back then, my family would have been crucified like the way the VCs did to my uncle, brother and father- in law. Yeah, I’m pretty sure history will look back very kindly to this buffoon! .
If you think it couldn't have, you're painfully naive and uninformed. Pretty much everything about it could have been done better. It also means you have monstrously low expectations.
Okay then General… lay out your glorious plan in full detail. Let’s here how you would exit Afghanistan. I want the whole plan too. One that doesn’t exist in a world where we cannot control a foreign army almost overnight laying down their arms and switching sides because our intelligence is that bad on the ground after years of depleting the intelligence apparatus because we had a president who is scared that everyone is wire tapping him. You think you could do better… prove it.
1. planned MUCH better 2. executed later (this is peak fighting season there) 3. evacuated people earlier 4. provided air cover for the Afghan army 5. provided supplies for the Afghan army 6. NOT left all our equipment to be taken by the Taliban 7. Been FAR more aware of what would happen 8. and hence planned for it 9. NOT left tens of thousands of our allies behind to die 10. Not made it look like the Taliban kicked us out with our tails between our legs, giving them a MASSIVE moral and political victory 11. NOT made it look like we had no idea what we were doing, and were just scrambling to pick up the pieces as it unraveled all around (even though that is just what happened) 12. Had a more ordered evacuation, over a longer period of time (which would have helped with all of the above). can you tell me one thing about it that went well? or is leaving people so desperate they cling to the sides of a plane taking off, falling to their death from thousands of feet, your idea of a job well done? I mean, seriously, have you not been paying any attention at all to what's been happening? And if so, did you seriously watch it and think 'yes, that looks like it was well planned?' SERIOUSLY???
See above, open your eyes, raise your expectations, and pay better attention to what's going on. You can't watch what is happening there and NOT think it could have been done MUCH better.
agreed with your points,should've been planned better. but also many dominos led to this, not surprising that this guy and tht guy were both short sighted...it aint the first time,these parties arent sending their best, just the most profitable On another note, is it surprsing how terrible we handled this? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...al-us-public-were-misled-about-unwinnable-war Also take a look at teh afghan papers leak....its been abotu 4 presidents lying to us about any sense of progress or reality in ability to train and develop an army there, let alone an entire country...its a gross misunderstanding how tribal the culture and thus the terrain is over there and how decentralized the control is that a central governtemnt can be adhered to with virtually no infrastructure...it aint our first rodeo there, and its not hteir first one with large powers trying to fight over their land...but no ones ever come out of their a victor. Not the soviets, british...nobody. and now we leave the same way. but don't worry, all thoes trillino of our hard earned tax dollars...millions of lives of both us and civilians ther, someoen does benefit of it. arms dealers and contractors made a killing, https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html we'll probably find a common enemy soon, something scary like far left socialist or trump right, or thescary muslim refugees coming in, i thikn chinawill still work, russia may not...but something for the news and politiciansto sell, maybe another caravan i dont know...and history will repeat
My favorite part of your list is no 9. Many in here don’t seem to get it. My people had been through this betrayal before, there is no greater sin than this heinous act. It’s like the being stabbed in the back by someone whom you’re willingly giving up your life to protect that person. Is there any wonder why no one trusts America anymore?
#2 is the killer for me - "Peak Fighting Season" EVERY FREAKING DAY IS Peak fighting season over there... The only time it may slow down is during Ramadan... The US Has always had more troops than anyone over in Afghanistan and the goal was never to stay there FOREVER!!! The goal was to get our guys back home and i'm pretty sure they looked at OPTION A,B,C and D... There was no perfect option and at some point you have to pick the best of the worst options..... You guys act as if they say ok were done on Thursday an packed on Friday... They started planning this in APRIL and it was discussed with NATO.... I can guarantee you, someone would be digging holes into which Option was chosen, so for me I am HAPPY my brothers and sisters are coming home.... This is actually from NATO and last I checked US is part of NATO https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_113694.htm "The NATO-led mission Resolute Support Mission (RSM) in Afghanistan was launched on 1 January 2015, following the completion of the mission of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF). Its aim was to provide further training, advice and assistance for the Afghan security forces and institutions. In April 2021, the Allies decided to start the withdrawal of RSM forces by 1 May 2021. The drawdown of all US and RSM forces should be completed within a few months. NATO Allies and partners will continue to support the ongoing Afghan-owned and Afghan-led peace process towards a lasting and inclusive political settlement." "On 14 April 2021, recognising that there is no military solution to the challenges Afghanistan faces, the Allies decided to start the withdrawal of RSM forces by 1 May 2021. The drawdown of all US and RSM forces is to be orderly, coordinated and deliberate, and due to be completed within a few months. Any Taliban attacks on Allied troops during this withdrawal will be met with a forceful response. The withdrawal of troops does not mean the end of the relationship with Afghanistan but rather the start of a new chapter. Besides the continued provision of training and financial support to the Afghan National Defence and Security Forces, Allies have decided to maintain a NATO civilian presence in Kabul through the Senior Civilian Representative’s Office in Kabul to continue diplomatic engagement and enhance partnership with Afghanistan; to deliver funding to ensure the continued functioning of Hamid Karzai International Airport; and to continue out-of-country training for the Afghan security forces, with a special focus on the Afghan Special Operations Forces." https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/12/afg...leave-immediately-as-taliban-nears-kabul.html "The Biden administration will deploy 3,000 troops to Afghanistan in order to facilitate the drawdown of personnel at the U.S. Embassy in Kabul as the Taliban rapidly advances toward the Afghan capital. The troops, which will consist of three infantry battalions in total from the Marines and Army, will deploy to Kabul’s Hamid Karzai International Airport within 24 to 48 hours, Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said during a press briefing Thursday. “This is a very narrowly focused mission of safeguarding the orderly reduction of civilian personnel out of Afghanistan,” Kirby said, adding the Pentagon expects to increase its airlift capability in the region." T_Man
Give it a rest already man. We get it. Your schtick is old and you've only been here a month or two? Who knows if your family story is even real at this point, General. Or if you're just another conservative troll. I'd lean the later.
No one really paying close attention is surprised that this unraveled as fast as it did. There was never a clear vision or objective in Afghanistan other than to kill Bin Laden. There was no genuine plan long term, and when a plan was formulated, it would change. Money was spent but it wasn't spent with the idea of developing a long term plan. The last person holding the bag will get the blame, and that is fine, that is what it takes being the President.... but this was a disaster from the very beginning and everyone has known for years that it was a bag of **** that no one wanted to open.
Could Biden have done a withdraw better? Probably, I am sure he relied on his military people etc.... but I also believe he probably told them to just get it done. As far as "nation building" is concerned, it CAN be done... we did it in a number of places successfully but it takes a commitment and an understanding that we are usually not willing to give. The reality is Iraq and Afghanistan were stupid wars. Afghanistan was never going to be tamed. Iraq could have been made into a stable nation with some form or "better government" if we had people that understood the cultures in the region and actually cared, it could be a success... but that isn't what we have.
from what I've read Biden and members of his administration were genuinely shocked at how fast the Taliban took over. I think they were genuinely surprised at the speed of the losses. I think that's the policy failure: the President has one job, foreign policy. And this withdrawal looks, if not botched, ineptly done.
Monstrously low expectations? Have you paid attention the last 70 years of US foreign policy? Anyone that expected better is incredibly naive. The reality is that the USA never should have invaded Iraq or Afghanistan, and if they were going to invade, they should have either turned them into essentially colonies or they should have gotten the hell out right away...... the Republicans post 9-11 were arrogant and stupid thinking it would work and the Democrats were gutless cowards that were afraid to take a stand........ and here we are..... a lot of people dead and a lot of lives ruined and a lot of money lost..... and generations in the Middle East destroyed.
Then Biden and his administration is myopic and stupid if they really are surprised..... I follow it all very closely because of my wife and an interest in the culture, and it was clear that it would topple and topple quickly as soon as a decision was made to withdraw... and it was clear that we would eventually withdraw, it was a matter of who would pull the trigger. I don't have an issue with people being critical of Biden's withdraw, I just know it was going to end in disaster regardless.... I am sure it will impact Biden in the short term, and maybe even the mid terms...... but long term it won't matter because Americans are sick of it all and honestly don't want to think about it.
Once again... this is factually incorrect. No matter how many times you repeat it, it won't become the truth.
