Problems in the Middle East go back well before the USA and the UK. The USA, UK and Russia all deserve criticism for the handling of the region. I have no issue with criticism of the USA and their policy in the region. However, it is extremely simplistic to think that the actions of the USA are why the region is the way it is. It does a disservice to all the people in that region and that have been in that region and it is looking at it through the eyes of a liberal in the West and not through the reality of the region.
We can't hide this giant disaster, and I feel no President made the withdrawal because this was the fear. The "trained Afghan solders" folded when facing the Taliban without us to back them up. They don't have the fervor of the other side.
I read The Return of A King by William Dalrymple which is a 400+ work which explores the first British invasion of Afghanistan in 1839. The work drew parallels to todays crisis and also explained the history of the country to a certain extent. I'm sure you're much more qualified to discuss the history/culture/political make up and landscape of Afghanistan though, for whatever reasons. Turns out the country has been ruled by brutal, repressive, pedo-ass **** bags for a long ass time.
This. Also there isn't a uniform culture in the area and the idea of nationhood means absolutely nothing to the overwhelming majority of people that live in those arbitrary borders. The culture isn't inferior, nor are the people..... the region has been raped.
Fair enough, I appreciate it. Also to be clear, the policy of the USA (and the West) in the Middle East has been a disaster.... I just don't want people to believe that it was Eden prior to US involvement.
So a country that has been invaded by foreign powers since 1839 hasn't manifested a culture you accept. Shocking. Almost 200 years of foreign invasions and you are shocked that the region didn't develop a strong national identity and is now a tribal region with no national identity? If you want to use superior knowledge of the region based on reading a book, then you should probably provide some quotations or paraphrased excerpts that back your conclusion rather than merely saying "I read a book". Explain HOW the book you read made you form a opinion that Afghan culture inherently is inferior rather than a result of conditions experienced.
If the group on top experienced the same socioeconomic conditions and instability as the group on the bottom, they would essentially be the same people. Taliban even got anti-vax rhetoric going for them.
Yea, you're right, they deserve a free pass to be some of the most brutal, repressive, ass backwards, pedophiliac people on earth because they've faced some invasions. That's a good excuse. Amazing how the Polish aren't ruled by a bunch of louzy **** bags too.
The US needs to learn that invading a country and attempting to assist them with money and resources and setting up a government doesn’t work. As soon as you leave it comes crashing down. Cuba, Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc. I understand it’s a humanitarian crisis and horrible things are happening to innocent people and you want to help. Or you feel like you got sucked into the conflict ala Gulf of Tonkin, Bay of Pigs, 9/11. Point is you either go in and annex these countries and make them a legal territory of the US with a permanent presence or stay the F out of it. This half assed **** just wastes money and lives for no lasting benefit.
Huh? This isn't my fight but I don't think anyone is saying that the Afghan people or culture (I don't like that term especially in the ME because the area is largely made up of a number of vastly different cultures) are wonderful or perfect.... they are the same as people anywhere else in the world. The region has just had a lot of death and rape and destruction from all directions.
Poland didn't experience a constant steady barrage of invasions from foreign powers for nearly 200 years. And Poland is a rather bad example when providing context of the quality of life in other European nations. Most Polish people who seek high skilled professions like engineering and science fields migrate to other countries like Germany because those jobs barely exist in Poland.
Kid? First you give me death threats, now you are following me to provoke. Looks like I have myself a personal stalker. You have major issues. Get a life or go choke on a dick...
Germany and Japan would disagree. One of the big mistakes we routinely make is learning the wrong lessons and and making blanket generalizations as a result. Cuba, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Germany, and Japan are all unique places. What works in one doesn't necessarily work in another. When we take the 'lessons' from one conflict and try to apply them to a totally different one, it's likely to fail for obvious reasons. Afghanistan doesn't show us that trying to help establish another country's government doesn't work. It shows us that it didn't (and given the 20 year timeframe, likely can't ever) work in Afghanistan. What we learn from that about how well it would or wouldn't work in Country X should largely be based on the details of Country X and circumstances of that conflict rather than "it shows it never works."
Damn. I don't recall giving you death threats. You should report that if you did. That's serious and should be reported. And if you referring to me "following you" as in I was reading this thread chain over a subject I'm interested in and read your comment in the process I guess I was "following" you then.
The execution was so awful that all that's left for Biden and his supporters is to claim it was someone else's execution. This pathetic excuse would never fly with most Americans which is why Psaki and Biden are hiding until they figure out some other bullshit they can claim.
Of course, the people of Afghanistan aren't "naturally inferior" or anything. They are simply people who are making horrific choices. We see that throughout the world. Some folks do the right thing and some folks do the wrong thing. We condemn those who make the bad decisions and we laud those who make the good ones. Afghanistans history isn't an excuse for the abhorrent conduct of many of it's people today. Many people in Afghanistan are fully on board with the principals of human rights and human dignity. Afghanistan is full of people making choices every day deciding how to conduct themselves. Unfortunately, all too many choose to murder, rape, commit sex crimes against children, choose selfish actions, choose corrupt actions and forsake real willingness to be altruistic/come together to form a system of governance that would provide human rights and dignity to the people of the area. They are physically and mentally capable of doing it, they choose not to. They are assholes.
Respectfully disagree to compare Japan and Germany to Cuba, Vietnam, and Afghanistan. Japan and Germany were sophisticated world powers while the latter three were third world countries. Most importantly there was a legitimate war with Germany and Japan which we had to get involved. My assertion was a blanket I understand that so let me rephrase don’t get involved trying to set up governments in third world countries unless you intend to annex it and run the government yourself.
