1. Apparently there is a general perception among the sporting public that Marbury is a "streetballer", hence he is on the cover of a video game entitled "NBA ballers" (note, this lends credence ot the notion that streetballer is an arbitrary term) 2. I gave you your example. In a game vs. Phoenix in 2002, which the Rockets won, Marbury tried to make it into a one-on-one face off with Francis, by talking trash to him about the All star game about he was the "real All Star" This was written up in the Chronicle the next day. Again, I have no example Also, perhaps the fact that he is a Coney Island playground legend named "Starbury," coming from a family of playground legends (his older brothers) , might tend to make one think of him as a "streetballer". Now, if an assist to turnover ratio disqualifies one from being a streetballer, let me know. Or if any other factor must be considered let me know. I don't think you can provide a definition that is not entirely arbitrary, but you have the opportunity to prove me wrong, which you will no doubt relish if you can, so go for it.
greeeat... what "NFL games"? there's only one game. I named one game. NFL street, where you can play on the parking lot, there's 5 laterals each down, and when you tackle people do flips and stuff... tell me that's not how street football is played? have you played this game? also, is "NBA Street", not based on street ball? why didn't you answer to that? and is Jordan NOT on that cover? finally, you didn't answer my main and salient point. just because someone does a cover to make some money, does that mean they should epitomize what that game stands for? i think i've proven otherwise.
There's more than one NFL game. You're right, Marbury isn't a street baller because he's on the cover of that game, he's one because that's his reputation in the NBA. We're talking about the same guy who didn't want to play with the current MVP because he wanted to be the man. The guy is known as a playground legend.
Sam, don't you know the magical assist to turnover ratio is the trump card in all arguments. Its the reason Jason Terry would be an upgrade over Steve Francis. Did you know that Rafer Alston had a higher assist to turnover ratio than Jason Kidd. So even though Kidd is regarded as the best pure point guard in the NBA and Rafer Alston actually played on one of those street ball tours, we all know who the real street baller is between the two.
I'm just worried about Earl "the Goat" Manigault. If his A/T ratio is too good, they're going to have to rename "Goat Park" up on 98th street to like "Bryce Drew Courts" or something like that that probably won't fly in Harlem...
I don't see Yao being aggressive next season......but I hope he is, because his team have taken a lot S@#$ just because everyone thinks hes just in the first years and he isn't suppost to be good.
1. How many times do I have to tell you that it's a marketing ploy / business decision that Marbury is on that cover? He wants street cred to improve his popularity and advertising dollars. Just because he grew up in a family of street ballers and has a repuatation before entering the league... that automatically overrides what he does or doesn't do on the court? 2. Trash talking and going one on one. That's the definition you racked your brain to come up with so that you can find an example? So then Gary Payton and Sam Cassell are big street ballers too? How about fancy moves and over-dribbling, is that not street ball too? Have you heard an announcer call one of Marbury's moves a "one hundred dribble" move? In the end, Marbury street balled his way to 8.9 assists per game. Second in the league. Marbury and Kidd are 11th in the league in assist / turnover. Alston has 0.02 more assist/TO but has few assists too. Where is Steve Francis? Not in the top 50. I just want you to name one move that Marbury does that's more a street ball move than what Francis does. Do it. I hate being overly critical of one of our players. I just asked my roommate, who is a Celtics fan, who the bigger street baller is, and he thought long and hard and said Francis. Both have that reputation, but neither plays streetball on the court. Marbury even less so.
Yipheng: we are going in circles. What is a streetballer? Is it moves? Is it attitude? Is it background? Is it stats? Is it tats? Or is it all of those things combined and then some? Undoubtedly there is a racial component involved (not a rac-ist component, but rac-ial; please don't think I am calling you a racist because I am not). However this leads me to believe that the label of "streetballer" is more of a categorization of perception rather than anything that can be quantified in a basketball sense and hence is an un-useful label. Marketing ploy or not, Marbury has the rep as a streetballer, as well he should, and Francis does too. Do they have different stat lines? Sure...Francis has more turnovers and rebounds, Marbury has more assists... Does that make any one of them more or less "street"? Not that I can tell.
All along you have been arguing that Marbury is more of a street baller than Francis. Now you concede that point? Then we have nothing to argue about.
What point? Marbury is perceived as a streetballer, I imagine since he grew up playing playground basketball in an urban area and embraces that image. http://www.and1.com/iball.asp Are you just trying to say that Marbury has a better A/T ratio? Than just say it. Don't try to make this tenous linkage with such and such being more or less "street" than somebody else unless you can tell me what a "streetballer" is. This whole thing started when somebody claimed something to the effect of how "nobody in their right mind would claim that Marbury is as much of a streetballer than Francis", with which I had disagreed because I think the label is arbitrary and can't be quantified, to which you felt compelled to respond. Considering that Marbury is And1's flagship athlete, NBA ballers cover man, and former playground legend, I'd say that's an incorrect statement. The only way it's correct is if I have the wrong definition of "streetballer"; apparently in your mind I do, since you can clearly define that Francis is more of one than Marbury. Now, what is the definition of streetballer that you are using?
Yip, Sam is just asking you to define "streetballer". You are accusing or implying SF of being one and Marbary as not being one. So what makes a player a "streetballer" and what makes a player not a "streetballer"? Personally, I think that there are no "streetballers" with a career in the NBA... DD, What you just wrote is why I think theFreak wrote what he wrote - that Great Players are not held back by other players. If Yao wants to be great, he has to demand the ball from Steve or Brand or TMac or whoever. In other words, if Yao defers too much to SF, what makes you think he will not defer to someone such as a TMac or Brand or Iverson?
the point that Marbury is MORE of a streetballer than Francis. you brought the picture up (in two separate threads no less) to support that didn't you? In the Olympic thread you brought up this pic to show that Marbury shouldn't be picked over Francis because he's more of a street ball player. my stance is that Marbury is not more of a streetballer than Francis in the NBA as his reputation may suggest, that Marbury is actually quite disciplined as a point guard, and Marbury, unfortunately, is more effective as a point guard than Steve Francis. If you really want a definition of street ball. I'll give you one. It's the type of game that's played on the and 1 tour. Fancy passes, fancy moves, tons of dribbling, dribble dribble, try to cross your opponent over, and if not pull up for a shot. Obviously neither play throws passes off the defender's head like in the mix tapes. But Francis, in my opionion, albeit I've seen many more Francis games in the NBA than Marbury games, dribbles more and does more fancy moves, which leads to more turnovers and bad shots, than Marbury, and statistics bear that out.
You've got it slightly confused. In this thread this was the post I was responding too: " Who in their right mind can say Marbury is as much a streetballer as Steve Francis? Marbury can be the streetballer than Steve is, but he rarely brings it to the NBA court." But anyway, Marbury is the predominant figure when it comes to picking a "streetball" player when it comes to marketing, so I take that as an indicia that he has at least as much, and most likely, more "streetball" ishness of a reputation as Francis. In the Olympic thread...somebody made the comment that Marbury was selected because he wasn't an "And1" player like Francis. That's a patently ludicrous statement, given that Marbury is And1's flagship athlete and has been for years. because of his highar A/T ratio? Ok. I've seen Marbury do this a lot. In his own words: I've seen Kobe Bryant do this a lot, as well. Is he a streetball player? Michael Jordan did a lot of fancy dribbling too. Was he a streetball player? So it comes down to assist/turnover ratio. Fine. Like pgabriel said, that's going to lead you to some screwy results if that's your definition of Streetball.
reputation reputation reputation. That's your argument? Marbury has a bigger streetball reputation than Francis? I don't deny that. But there's a difference between reputation and reality which I hope you see. and more total assists, fewer total turnovers, and the ability to lead the break better, what else do you want? Steve is a bigger dunker and better rebounder. Please don't tell me you feel like he's more effective as a point guard because of that. yeah... that quote made no sense at all. exactly. Cassell and Payton too. i like this argument, except you are using it hypocritically, why does it only apply to Francis and not Marbury, who dribbles less anyway? and how does that prove Marbury is MORE a street baller than Francis. what indicator do you want to use then? the all quantifiable "heart", rebounding, and dunking? or how about total assists, total turnovers, fg%... what? i don't even like marbury and i don't want to defend him from your silly remarks anymore. Francis and Marbury are both good player but they both have flaws, as a point guard, Francis has more. Skirt skirt skirt, that's all you know how to do. Skirt the issues. There's almost no point in arguing with you anymore.
I'm not sure what most of this means. What you seem to be saying now is that Francis is more "street" because Marbury is a better point guard. Is that what you are saying or am I wrong? But anyway, since I finally squeezed a definition of "Streetball" out of you, which I don't entirely understand, can you define whether or not the following players are "Streetball": Stephon Marbury Steve Francis Allen Iverson Kobe Bryant Vince Carter Tim Hardaway Mike Bibby Jason Williams Cuttino Mobley Isiah Thomas Magic Johnson Tiny Archibald Calvin Murphy Earl "the Goat" Manigault Connie Hawkins Vinnie Johnson Magic Johnson Mario Elie Kenny Smith Earl "the Pearl" Monroe I'm sorry if you don't like arguing with me; however, IIRC the general pattern is that you seem to follow me around and initiate it by replying If you don't want to get into a pissing match, then don't start one, or better yet put me on ignore. Or else have a thicker skin.
alright I'm done arguing with you, and then having you not answer and make up a bunch of other BS. this thread was supposed to be about Yao anyway. i deliberately tried not to instigate anything by not quoting you on the second page, but you felt you had to get the last word in, and that how this started. Sam, I have nothing against you personally. It's just highly unfortunate that you fit right under one of my biggest pet peevs. Kids who pretend to know everything, will never admit they're wrong, and always need the last word. Good luck with whatever endevours you may have in the future.
Thank you for your kind wishes yipheng. In my professional capacity my arguing skills serve me quite well.
now that the street ball pissing match is over... i would have to think that next year will be the one for yao. it is really a matter of will. if he wants it bad enough, i think he'll become the dominant player that many think he can be. i think he's acclimated to the league, he just needs to turn up the intensity and fight through fatigue better.
