Shams - Philly offered Simmons/Thybulle + draft compensation. Did we make the right deal?

I think they would be hard pressed getting an all star caliber player back in return at all unless you consider a guy like CJ McCollum one. Then how many picks would you add to a CJ caliber player? One? Two at the most? Making your asking price ridiculously high doesn’t accomplish anything at the end of the day if everybody knows you’re bluffing and it’s outlandish. The market does not indicate Ben Simmons is worth anything near that. We saw that first hand when Stone tried to bluff his way into a young player with upside and a first round pick for Oladipo.

I just think he’s making himself look stupid when everybody knows he’s going to have to come down from that asking price. He went too far. He’s playing poker, but everybody at the table knows he’s bluffing.

 

I definitely don’t expect my opinion on the matter to be very popular and I understand the logic against it. I’m just a huge proponent of getting star talent when it’s available and I also believe in Wood and would love to put pieces around him that match his timeline.

 

Also at what point as a GM do you start rolling your eyes when Daryl Morey’s name pops up on the caller idea? I would be so pissed I’d change his name in my phone to Spam Risk

 

You cant be any solution because his FT's are atrocious. Teams will go full hack a Simmons and he'll eventually be unplayable

 

The public opinion pendulum will swing back again on Simmons, the trick is to take advantage of 76ers while Simmons value is at its lowest.

Simmons is a legit 1st team All NBA but he's just come off a putrid postseason performance.

Everyone has forgotten all the positives while piling on the negatives.

Doc as 1st year HC for 76ers did not do Simmons any favors either.

Teams trying to strike when iron is hot but Morey is trying to keep the Looky Lou's at bay while attempting to salvage the best deal possible.

 

I agree. Simmons simply will have to find a way to get over this hump of shooting to really reach his potential

that said, lets not forget why he was an overwhelming top pick. Hes 6'10, can guard the permiter at an elite level, he can guard any position. hes a disruptor at the highest level on defense and thats whats overlooked hes committed adn gotten better in that regard every season

Hes also a great reboudner, and an elite playmaker with elite athleticism....he can pretty much do everything at a high level except shoot. So you take him and put him at the 4 or give him at 4 out ofense...this guy will averaged 20-11-7 and will CONTINUE to be an all star

but yes, he needs to improve. but philly wasn't a great roster for him bc they have embiid and as they should, build around him. Simmosn gets shitted on just like Paul or anyone with a bad year gets shitted on with over reaction bc we all got too much time in the offseason, some of it is very valid, but at 25 and being elite at everything else I can see how the market really flows with narrative.

I could see him flourishing, you have to accomodate to him though, but theres value there...ol just not value that daryl morey wants apparently

 

John Lucas would do wonders for Ben Simmons.

Miracles even.

 

a new environmetn and a little humility from last year playoffs would also do wonders for this freak of an elite athlete in terms of size, agility, speed, let alone he has teh handle, playmaking feel.

Its not hard to see why hes so interesting and why hes a max palyer. If warriors didn't already have draymond green you could put him in the high post and have a way better version for curry and thompson to run around with.

Spurs might make him work. A player like boris diaw can be waste space in some teams, spurs and MDA might give him a leash to do his non traditional brilliance though. Just lke Malone did with Jokic or kid with Giannis at first

I'd imagine same with Lonzo. a coach giving him a leash to run it well see a way better lonzo
Fit means a lot in this league

people wanted harden to play off ball, its lke asking lebron to play off ball. They may still be very good with their talent, but running lebron off the hook to a side three just lke with harden doesnt really take advantage of what makes them special, and elite

It was going to be hard for simmosn and embiid fit, despite the talent, teh spacing wasn't ideal. but as @D-rock said. his value is low, as we saw with paul and whoever else, we usually get on the internet and respond fast and tear a player down, i get the climate on here, but history has shown its not difinitive and don't over react. Heck some people said giannis will never win and he choked in free throw in his mvp year so why go all in on the guy, somehow it happened.

 

I think Philly could get away with waiting until the mid season trade deadline..... but that's pushing it.

 

I am willing to trade Wall for Simmons because of Wall's toxic contract and his likely impeding of the young guys' development. Honestly, if I were to choose one of these three bad contracts, this is the order of my choices:
1. Harris
2. Simmons
3. Wall

If Philly was willing to swap either Harris or Simmons for Wall straight up, I'd take it.

The dilemma of playing or benching Wall is even worse than Simmons. Simmons is at least useful in many other ways. And if he is willing to play the Capela role on offense, it's a win for us.

 

Luke is our secret sauce. I wouldn't have believed how his life would turn out back in March of 1986. He failed a drug test (for cocaine) and Bill Fitch told him he was finished. Just like that, a key part of our young team that would go on to contend for a title that season was gone. Today? He's a 45 year league veteran who is a key part of our young team that we all hope will evolve into a contender, and if/when it does, Lucas will have played an important role, in my opinion. He is quite a story.

Speaking of stories, SI has a good one about Lucas from back in February. https://www.si.com/nba/2021/02/08/john-lucas-rockets-45-year-career

 

thats the issue when its now public, the pressure is on them, they have less leverage to see if it works bc they almost publicly annoucned that it won't

Starting the season with your 2nd star knowing its a matter of time to be out is not hte right culture

not sure what daryl is doing, almot like hes trolling the whole league, but his back is against the wall with this one. Its a talented piece that just happens to be at his lowest value...gotta sting on his calculator with this one.

 

The biggest L is whoever takes on Simmons and gives up anything of value for him. You have to eat that contract for 4 years for a player that is scared of shooting. He cannot play PG and really he cannot be 3&D because no 3. Agree his D is next level.

 

This is a MAXXXX PLAYER. You do not acquire those players and then forgive their weaknesses. RYAN ANDERSON... You got with rookies and draft picks like we have done and develop young players on cheap contracts and while you have Bird Rights you strike on two max FAs before you have to sign these guys. A guy who is afraid and cannot shoot is NOT a max player. Those are not potential or reclamation projects, those are run in the other direction. We lost two championships because of Ryno. Think of what we could have done with anyone else. Hell Harden and CP3 would still be on this team and who knows what we would have done by now. That is how big of a mistake that was. PJ Tucker is not the same as Ryno or Simmons. One was a 3&D guy for $8M, the other two players get a GM and coach fired.

 

This is where the Pelicans come in and Morey decides whether the wants to settle for picks or for a decent player. NO can provide them the picks, we can provide them John Wall. That's as good as it gets.

 

I agree with the bulk of what you said but Ryno didn't get anybody fired and neither has Simmons.

 

There is this thought that having a max player fill a small role or not performing at all like Ryno is acceptable and you should still win anyway. Find me a team that won a chip recently without their stars being stars. The truth is if you remove Ryno from those Rockets teams and use his $18-$20 contract slot on a PG13 or any other set of players we would have won championships. Its just the reality. Harden was going 1 on 4 against stars in those games. It literally was the difference. Through combinations of trades we essentially used 2 1sts to remove him from this team belatedly. The pieces we acquired we worthless and not replaced. No team can do that and win with one hand behind their back. The unicorn stretch 4 was a career defining blunder for Morey. That die is cast now. If we won, CP3, Harden, Morey, and D'Antoni are still here and even the D coach probably. Again, losing has consequences.

Philly's previous regime was fired because they couldn't get over in playoffs. Some of that is Embiid being injured but they had to go out and acquire a lot of shooters to offset Simmons. The situation is the same. Simmons is an albatross they are trying to dump while he still holds any value and they are rapidly losing the value in a deal as this goes forward. If he stays on this team Morey and Doc are gone. Butler made a beeline out of there because of Simmons.

Look at the horrible 2016 FA and its shadow in this year of all the players overpaid and tell me which of those teams will win. If you pay a Mozgov or Ryno you pay for it. If you pay a Simmons who we all expected to be a good but he becomes this you suffer for it. If you have a Wall you pray you can get rid of him. Our best best is to move EGo, Augustin, and Wall when we can without giving up picks and take the pieces and flip them over to try and create two max slots for next summer. We could go in with another high lottery pick and two max slots ready to play musical chairs again. OKC is smart. Outside of this draft, we have been the opposite.

 

*Insert @Reeko avatar*

Morey is drunk off of Cheez Whiz

 

Okay, twist my arm already, they can have John Wall.

But hurry up and do it before I change my mind.

*snort*