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Let's go there: Are the unvaccinated the new Trumps?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Two Sandwiches, Aug 1, 2021.

  1. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    You should also ask: "what are the long term health effects of being infected with COVID when unvaccinated?"

    The answer to your question is there are no known long term health effects and it would be extremely unlikely for there to be any given what we do know. That's the same answer for every other approved vaccine.

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...use-side-effects-long-after-getting-the-shot-


    “The concerns that something will spring up later with the COVID-19 vaccines are not impossible, but based on what we know, they aren’t likely,” adds Miles Braun, adjunct professor of medicine at the Georgetown University School of Medicine and the former director of the division of epidemiology at the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

    A key reason for this limited window of side effects is the short time all vaccines stay in the body, says Onyema Ogbuagu, an infectious diseases specialist at Yale Medicine and a principal investigator of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine trial. Unlike medicines that people take every day or week, vaccines are generally administered once or a handful of times over a lifetime. The mRNA molecules used in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are especially fragile, he notes, so “they are out of your body in a day or so.”

    The vaccines subsequently get to work stimulating the immune system so it can memorize the virus’s blueprint and mount a quick response if it encounters the real thing later. “This process is completed within about six weeks,” says Inci Yildirim, a vaccinologist and pediatric infectious diseases specialist at Yale Medicine. That’s why serious adverse effects that might be triggered by the process emerge within this time frame, after which everything is put on a shelf in the body’s library of known pathogens, Yildirim says.

    Historically, vaccine side-effects appear right away. A stroll through vaccine history confirms that even the most damaging side effects have indeed taken place within a six-week window.
     
  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I’ll repeat what I said in the other thread. The vaccines are an100% effective. There’s no such thing as 100% effectiveness. We do know that while there are breakthrough infections most of new infections are unvaccinated. The vast majority of severe illnesses are unvaccinated.

    Everything in life is risk but the risk of the vaccines are minuscule compared to the risk of severe illness if you get infected and are unvaccinated.

    To be blunt while yes there are some valid reasons for concern about the vaccines, such as if you’re immune compromised, but most of the concern I see as political and cultural. In my own opinion is don’t think we’re doing enough to get people vaccinated and excusing hesitancy based on misinformation isn’t a good thing.
     
    #42 rocketsjudoka, Aug 1, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
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  3. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    I see the culture part
    I knew I’m not the only one.
     
  4. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    if the unvaccinated are willing to accept the risk, why must the vaccinated be placed under mask/lockdown orders?
     
  5. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    I would ballpark the "unvaccinated group" as roughly half bonafide Trump Cons whereas the other half is a hodgepodge of poor (don't care, can't get it, how does that pay the bills...), historically mistreated and now untrustful minorities, the immuno compromised, and fraidy cats who took one dose then now think they're good enuf (didn't like the adverse side effect).

    TrumpCons have the most agency though some of the others outside the immunocompromised won't be blamed or finger pointed directly though they arguably have the same agency to get the 2 shots.

    In fact, if Trump was president now, I imagine our vaccine rates would be a little higher but pathetic enough for health officials to be alarmed "with the incoming numbers."

    Why? Just look elsewhere in countries with an abundance of vaccines. We're not the best, but we aren't the worst either...

    Because of the countless stories of "deathbed conversions" going on daily inside ICU rooms overcrowded with previously "risk aware" unvaccinated?

    Vaccines aren't as quick with forgiving as the Church.
     
    #45 Invisible Fan, Aug 1, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
  6. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    protecting individuals from themselves is not a valid reason to mask/lockdown the general population
     
  7. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Actually when the government is tasked with public safety and public health matters like containing an epidemic, then they're afforded more powers to accomplish it. We've been in a yearlong forbearance scheme that's mostly been upheld in courts because of health concerns from the CDC.

    I don't know whether I'd go as far as mandating universal vaccines (public/private employer mandates a different matter), but infectious diseases go beyond mere personal choice.

    It'd be like arguing for an ebola patient to be free to roam around shopping malls and supermarkets out of their own personal assessment of "risk taking."
     
  8. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    but the vaccines eliminate the threat of transmission, rendering it a personal choice

     
  9. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Again, they're containing an epidemic that goes beyond one person. If there were an outward way of knowing who is and isn't vaccinated, then I'd be more down with that premise of loosening lockdowns.

    For me, it goes back to hospitalization rates and the burdening of our healthcare infrastructure. Lowered death rates is great but these lockdowns were proposed to reduce the chance of ICUs are becoming overcrowded.

    Hospitals are the measure or metrics that'll convince me.

    I ****ing hate lockdowns, but I'm not the type who thinks my 2 shots are some contract for me to roam around freely as some people feel when they flaunt mask regs.

    More people are dropping like flies.

    Public health and safety features are doing their jobs that won't please self-entitled assholes on either side of the line. They aren't 100% right or competent, but I'm betting people commenting on this are far less accurate or invested as they are.
     
  10. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Because the vaccines are not fool proof like they are advertised and there’s way more breakthrough cases than the media wants you to know.

    also as I mentioned here , there’s the loophole of kids getting the virus and spreading it cause they are not vaccinating kids under 10 or 12

    And the teenagers and coeds who’ve already gotten COVID multiple times and don’t care cause nothing happened to them or their friends
    And they will keep partying and spreading at concerts and parties non stop

    apparently either the old people here are too stupid or too immersed in politics to remember their partying days or never went to any parties
     
  11. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Contributing Member
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    How many times do you have to be told that a large population of unvaccinated make variants that evade current vaccines more likely? The level at which is your ideology impacts your cognition is frightening.
     
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  12. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Contributing Member
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    “It’s time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks,” Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey (R) said this month. “It’s the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down.”
     
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  13. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    this is a flimsy and convenient argument for something as draconian as compulsory vaccinations, lockdowns, and masking directives

    the most amicable thing would be for fearful blue areas to lockdown/mask in perpetuity, while red areas enjoy freedom and the associated risks.

    But the blue areas are more interested in controlling the general population.
     
    #53 Commodore, Aug 1, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
  14. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Bottom line is that I really don't care where the red/blue areas are controlled and more concerned with where I'm living. I do care about having less people die, but I'm not going to argue that in front of someone who thinks dying at an ICU was a personal choice they have to eat.

    I don't know what to say. Your conspiracy or hunch is unfounded, and your our bias against masks really goes against the numbers and science at reduced public transmission.

    I get it. You think it's a threat to some way of life you've imprinted. Makes things a fruitless exercise in dialogue if the goal is to convince the other.
     
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  15. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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    That tweet is not about transmission.
     
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  16. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Who GAF about details?!? The Science??
    [​IMG]


    How about we go more into ideal principles and gotchas that delay more than progress then call it a day?
     
  17. DonatelloLimestone

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    I think theres a lot of good questions and despite the lack of time, is shut down a good or harmful policy are good questions the people should be apart of. likewise mack mandates, enforcemetns, adn even vaccines which are new and i wish they did more infomraiton sessions more questions and answers rather than shouting down people to take it with pressure. ...that should never be the case for something that relates to health and I know its dire circumstances

    I've met many who think te whole thing is a hoax. Its like trump said he though 'surprisingly it will go away nov 4. He actually said that abotu easter, said it for the election, he just says a lot of things...hes got a track record of it and not following up, but yet that guy has become jesus to some curious people that he has said he loves the poorly educated.

    and the other question is, if its some american scam....then countries all over hte world not related to america be it asia, africa, south ameria all are shutting down...losing TRILLions of dollars, we know cash is king, but why are two bit small and big countries losing all the business and shutting down if this thing is just soem small hoax?

    I think there are better solutions, and not surpirisngly our govrnment both trumps and bidens aren't very efficient at handling it all, but doesnt mean the slope goes down to this was ccreated for gates and fauci to control our minds, I say that knowing bill gates monopoly history and his foundation investments that havent proven to be helpful to many outside his own taxes.
     
  18. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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    If it's mostly about politic and culture, there is very little chances it will change.

    75% of 65+ are vaccinated. I don't think it's mostly about politic and culture.
     
  19. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    your body your choice right?
     
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  20. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    true, it's about the consequences of transmission
     

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