One of my close close friends that passed had a genetic auto immune disorder that made her susceptible to catching viruses you typically get once and then are done with like chickenpox. She got them over and over again when most people only get it once and then maybe later in life it resurfaces as shingles for people with an immune system. Took until she was almost 20 before they figured out specifically what was wrong with her. By then she had a loss of lung function that already took 40% of her oxygen capacity from routinely catching colds that most people would be able to fight but put her in the ICU every 6 months to a year since pre-adolescence. Would still routinely exercise around the Greenbelt in Austin when healthy enough and could still run at least 4 miles a few days out of the week. She fought with all her might to live is all I'm trying to illustrate and was health conscientious. I guess it's just easier for me to take Covid more seriously having seen people I was really close to pass away who were my age or younger that didn't live unhealthy lifestyles. Their genes were just f*cky compared to the average person is all. And they probably wouldn't be advised to get vaccinated themselves but if everyone around them did they would be safe from at least local herd immunity of people they interacted with on a routine day by day basis. Watching people you really love have their body's fail them through no deliberate fault of their own just makes you realize there's more to this world than yourself. Chronically ill people like to go out and be social too. The lack of personal and community responsibility from anti-vaxxers really f*cks up the freedom chronically ill people would like to exercise just like typically normal healthy people. They like to go clubbing in downtown 6th and line hall dancing at Mavericks. They like to go out to nice dinners with indoor seating like Jack Allen's kitchen and wine tasting in Fredericksburg and traveling across the country; Seeing and experiencing the world. They like catching early afternoon matinees on their days off. They like living their life outside of the confines of their apartment and doctor offices where they spend most of their time rehabbing just to maintain their current health that continues to degrade despite their best efforts. They like living their life with what remaining life they don't know how much of they have left too and feeling as safe as they possibly can when venturing out in public. Don't take this as a rant against you just because I'm quoting you. It's just there's no chronically ill posters that post on D&D that I know of personally. They don't have a voice necessarily to speak up when anti-vaxxers start talking about their own freedom. What of the freedom for the chronically ill who wish to enjoy life too though? Don't they matter at all? They're likely running on a shorter time scale than you aren't they? A year of inconvenience for you might in the same time frame might be what remains of their life. Better to enjoy that year feeling safe enough to be social and do fun things they'd prefer doing over dying, and to take comfort that when they do pass, they'll be able to have friends and family that can be there when they do transition and die. People who die of Covid are typically restricted to the medical staff that watches them pass. No close friends or family to sit bedside and hold their hand in their last moments. No moments of prayer in a close familial setting. None of that. It's extremely selfish of healthy people with an immune system to continue to be anti-vax in my opinion.
These debates are mostly self centered in origin, then spun out into right/wrong scorekeeping. The situation you described, we all lived in temporarily for 6-12+ months. In some cases, it's an inconvenience. I want to say that extended period of uncertainty and stress is causing this nastiness, but we all know and rather not mention what's been happening for the past decade. So whether or not "they" matter really depends on who you ask, right? I'll try to be more detailed and introspective since you provided something that doesn't merit flippancy. What I mentioned earlier, I was worried about me and my own family's survival. I did up charity donations and tried to be more giving during our isolation, but survival and anxiety were the ultimate truth. That vaccine provided a solution, and once that came, my hierarchy of needs shifted. Instead of a matter of immediate survival, like what your friend encountered daily, it became a matter of an overall course of action where I had a small fraction of influence from my own direct agency. That powerlessness is where our country is at right now. And the mere feeling of it gives us tunnel vision of other people and other group's problems. We are all strung to blame each other for our ideological gotchas, but even without anti-vax (not)Trumpers, there's still large swaths of poor, the young (15-35), historically discriminated minorities, and now children who aren't vaccinated. Then there are those who, for whatever reasons, only took one dose and don't plan on completing the second. It's similar behavior and mentality of people demanding antibiotics, then not completing the treatment as recommended. Don't get me wrong. "Those anti-vaxers" are rightfully shamed because they have the most agency and choice in their decisions but are more likely motivated by politics and spite from not being vaccinated than legitimate health reasons. But how does an ideal total agreement with politics compel any of those other groups in getting fully vaccinated? I'm wondering because there's a lot of anger, derision, and disappointment in this forum because of this issue. It's not like the US is the only nation facing headwinds in full vaccination, but we and everyone else expect a helluva lot more from ourselves and each other when it comes to things that matter. I would like to believe that regardless of our needs or motivations that we are all human and similar rather than "mentally wired differently" or from other planets. It's just that our experiences and what we go through and whom we encounter is what makes us more human and more compassionate. I wouldn't want this on anyone...ultimately we might need to encounter and be around more outcomes like your friend's in order to not only to think differently but also to act differently. That's also human nature, I guess.
Yea. She passed away pre-Covid back in August 2019 but her wearing N95 masks just to go grocery shopping at HEB or Whole Foods was a part of her daily life towards the end. Same for trips to rehab facilities for physical and occupational therapy that were mostly designated for children and young adults who are just the worst at spreading contagious **** around their environment. She dropped out of high school to graduate early so she could enter college early. She did this so she could major to become a Respiratory Therapist so she could better understand how to administer her own medication and as a vocation to help others who experienced similar respiratory symptoms as herself. Graduated top of her class despite being in and out of the ICU during semesters. Still conducted flawless lab work. Worked at Seton and staffing agency contractors that provided home healthcare across the Hilly Country before her health degraded to the point where she had to quit in her early twenties. I've had junkie friends who threw their lives away that had so much potential. This woman was not like that at all. She maximized what she had to work with to the best of her abilities. She'd have gone so far in life if she had a healthy body. Just the right mentality. She had the looks. The wit. Extremely social, empathetic and a very persuasive and thoughtful communicator. Volunteered at animal shelters in her free time. Adopted a tripod cat that lost it's leg from a suspected car accident. Just a truly genuinely good woman. Extremely optimistic most days despite everything too. It was an easy choice every time to get the annual flu shot for people like her. Like debating vaccination isn't even a debate for me. I guess people really do have to experience a loss like that personally to be more easily persuaded by the merits of it I suppose. We'd cancel dates if I thought I had a minor cough I'd assume was from allergies jogging outside but could in fact be a contagious cold. So we'd sync movies at the same time while practicing social distancing yet still found a way to communicate and make the best of it until we could hang out again. I don't know man. It's more fun posting comedic Youtube videos and music videos than it is being candid among a sea of trolls. I just personally don't even see how this is a debate.
CDC was slow to adopting mask early on. Sitting on their hand until they get data. With this thing spreading at estimate R of 5-10 (depends on policies and many other factors), you can't just wait until you have good enough data (not saying that they don't). CDC was horrendously careful and slow but that's not good enough for something moving fast. Masking is so damn easy, yes inconvenient, but practically free that it's silly to not jump back onto it when data out of UK and Israel and the rest of the world is yelling at you there are many new risks with Delta. Maybe they ended up being wrong and the cost was just some inconvenient. It's sad that masking was politicized and became a symbol of freedom. I don't follow Israel public reaction and media much to gage how they have been reacting to their government dealing with this pandemic. They are very aggressive compared to us. They begin vaccination for at risk kids 5-11 before Pfizer BioNTech completed their human trials. They have started administering 3rd dose of vaccine for immunocompromised, again before Pfizer BioNTech said it's needed. These are all in reaction to Delta. They were also the fastest country to administer the first and second doses to a high percentage of their adult population.
From NYT: Mandate momentum Momentum for vaccine mandates seems to be building — which could ultimately matter much more than any mask-wearing guidelines. Facebook, Google and Netflix all said yesterday that they would require many employees to have been vaccinated for Covid-19, with limited exceptions for medical or religious reasons. The companies joined Morgan Stanley, The Washington Post and several other high-profile private employers. Several local governments — including New York State yesterday — have announced worker mandates that cover a few million people combined. In some cases, people can take a regular Covid test instead of being vaccinated. More than 600 universities have announced mandates for students or employees. California State, the country’s largest four-year public university system, joined the list Tuesday. Many hospitals also have mandates, including the sprawling Veterans Health Administration and the Mayo Clinic. Perhaps the biggest new rule is scheduled to be announced today — from President Biden, covering the millions who work for the federal government.
If these two things are true: (1) You wear a mask to protect others in case you are infected. (2) A vaccinated person and an unvaccinated person have equal capacity for spreading the infection to others Then doesn’t that mean that vaccinated and unvaccinated people are equally responsible for following guidance restrictions? Why should there be different rules for the unvaccinated? Can someone explain this?
they just reimposed mask mandate where I work, utterly r****ded what is the endgame here? wear masks forever?
Mitch McConnell is going to use campaign funds for radio spots in Kentucky to encourage people to get vaccinated. https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/w...-funds-to-fund-vaccine-radio-ads-117579333567
IF anti-maskers/Anti-Vaxxers had worn masks properly the first time and then gotten vaccinated it would be over by now..
"Out of Patience with the CDC? Grow the F Up": https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/out-of-patience-with-the-cdc-grow-the-f-up excerpt: We don’t have one problem. We have two. These breakdowns show clearly that we have a hesitancy problem in the Black and Hispanic communities and a resistance problem among white Republicans. Those are different issues. more at the link
I don't think #2 is true. A vaccinated person has a greater chance to be infected and pass it on to others with Delta than with Alpha, but it doesn't seem to make sense that they would have equal capacity for spreading ONCE infected (less viral load). Vaccinated has a much less chance of infected than unvaccinated.
MM said Republican are losing suburban voters in 2020 election (and that we got to win them back). Who do you think suburban will place the most blame for the hiccup and continuation of the covid epidemic in the US?
OK. That's the part I was unclear on. I hadn't come across a clear statement that a vaccinated person is less likely to spread an infection to someone else. I had assumed that was probably the case, but thought perhaps that was a misconception on my part. Edit: Well, I just came across this: https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/CDC-expected-to-backpedal-on-some-masking-16342759.php As the Associated Press notes, Walensky cited data from the last few days, still unpublished, taken from 100 samples from vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals with COVID infections. They found that the amount of virus in the noses and throats of vaccinated infected people was nearly "indistinguishable" from what was found in unvaccinated people, confirming what some experts have suspected. The increased viral load associated with the Delta variant appears to make vaccinated people equal spreaders of the virus. Walensky said that the data was "concerning enough that we feel like we have to act."
Maybe I missed it, but the statement from the CDC was that vaccinated people infected with delta has a higher viral load (as compared to Alpha). It didn't say the same viral load as compared to unvaccinated infected with delta. I think it's likely less. And perhaps the media picked that up and though higher means equal spread - no, I don't think you can conclude that. It just means higher chance of spread, not equal.
