Graveman has been extremely impressive this year and his stats prove it. "Luckiest reliever in baseball this season"?? So in your mind, helping to strengthen the weakest part of the team (the bullpen) doesn't improve their "chances of winning a World series" and "goes against reality"?? Click parted ways with a reliever who's been HORRIBLE this year and a utility player that's replaceable now that Diaz is back. "It's just about value". Yes and you make this trade every day of the week because the goal is to win a WS this year and strengthening the pen needs to be addressed to potentially achieve this.
Isn't the goal to win this year and next year and the year after that? And yes, Graveman's wOBA-xwOBA shows that he has been the luckiest reliever in baseball. That doesn't mean that he will not continue to excel this year. You do not have to believe it, I, myself am skeptical, but yes, those smart guys at fangraphs say a move like this barely changes the odds of winning the World Series. So everything he said is true, but you still make this trade to improve a weak area using a guy that has little avenue to playing time, since I do not think the Astros will be moving Bregman to shortstop. It also doesn't mean that in a few years we are lamenting that he has become another Laureano or Teoscar
Some posters over analyze analytics. These same posters also over value prospects. Prospects are cool, parades are cooler.
Minny slapped him in the face with an offer. Im sure we could climb into the 100M mark for a guy like that. His durability would be the biggest concern.
For any pitcher to have a .82 ERA they have to be very lucky. However if he was no longer lucky and still posted a 2.50 or 1.82 ERA it's still a good deal to help the bullpen.
The Astros are built primarily on homegrown prospects, trading veterans for prospects, and trading prospects for players. The Astros are built on analytics.
Yes the goal is to try to win the WS this year and the following years, but who knows what position they'll be in next year and the year after that etc etc. This years team is right in the thick of it, and has a very good overall record against the other teams that are serious WS contenders. Trading Smith doesn't diminish their odds this year or in the future, and Toro has been spotty at best and Bregman is the 3B and Diaz is back. Does adding Graveman move the needle in terms of odds to win the WS? Not much but he's certainly WAY better than some of the other clowns they've been trotting out.
He's playing baseball in Mexico for a reason. Even with the domestic violence stuff, if he was this incredible pitcher, he'd be playing in the MLB. But he's not, he's coming off TJS and, yeah, he beat the hell out of his wife. Can we just all collectively move on from Osuna in CF? Signing him was the start of the Astros becoming the villains of baseball and indirectly led to the Taubman drama. He's not a good guy, and I want no part of him. I'm not saying every professional athlete in Houston needs to be a Boy Scout, but you gotta draw a line somewhere. Osuna crosses that line. There are other pitchers, guys. Let it go.
You wouldn’t take Marte over Straw as your starting CF for the final 3 months of the pennant race and playoffs? He’s hitting .305 with 7 homers, 52 runs, 25 RBI’s, and 22! Stolen bases.
I think this is fair. Click improved the pen as he needed to, but he paid a fairly hefty price for a guy who’s likely to regress, not improve, over the last third of the season. Graveman is also a rental so we’ll likely need to address this issue again in the off season. It’s a decent trade but nothing more. I’m also not sure why Montero was included given that it wiped out a lot of the savings from trading Smith. Does Click think he has upside? Don’t really see it although I guess ZiPS likes him a little.
The Astros are pretty likely to be in the thick of things for a few more years to come. Next year should be interesting as the Athletics and Angels are probably in all in mode while the Mariners are an emerging team that should be a tough team at some point in the near future. Though, it will probably take injuries to prevent the Astros from winning the division. On Smith, he was primarily traded because there was no way the Mariners were getting Toro without taking on Smith's contract. And the Mariners countered by forcing the Astros to take on Montero's contract which is smaller than Smith's. Overall, it probably opens up breathing room for Click to make another deal without fretting over a few hundred thousand causing the Astros to have compensation draft picks moved back. On the trade itself, the Astros helped themselves. The Mariners helped themselves. I doubt the Astros could have gotten a better deal for Toro/Smith considering timing (deadline deal in a seller's market) and Toro's service time and approaching arbitration. I think the Astros are looking at the 40-man roster, and think they will need spots. Assuming Montero is traded/DFA, the Astros add a 40-man spot with this deal. My only dislike of the deal is that I hope it isn't the "See I fixed the bullpen, and now I'm done" deal.
That's the problem though. Even with that he came out and said he wants to stay in Minnesota. I'd love to have him but I'd rather have Scherzer
Sounds like Sherzer to the Dodgers is gaining momentum. Ugh. FWIW I really like our starters if we dont push them past 6 innings. Getting Graveman is really going to help out the flow. In a series our 1-3 would slot well against anyone and the 4th and 5th guys will only bolster the pen. LMJ/Framber/Grienke -- Luis Garcia, Odorizzi, Javier, Graveman, Pressly bullpen is nasty.
There's literally no reason to think that, though. Click has been flat out explicit in his desire to continue upgrading the team. You might as well dislike the deal bc Graveman might tear his ACL tomorrow playing beach volleyball.
I do think there is meaningful benefit in making a deal early. It takes the pressure off the Astros to make a move just to make a move. Also, if Click is finding the market friendlier on position players it lets him focus on that.
Yeah Scherzer to the Dodgers would really hurt. Completely agree on the rest. The Graveman move is being underrated.
