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Where does Giannis rank all-time following the 2021 NBA Finals?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by HardenVolumeOne, Jul 24, 2021.

  1. jerryclark

    jerryclark Member

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    YES! They had 3 all stars and houstons had 1 all star. Curry could be any kyrie cp3 any random all star and they would still win. Understand?
     
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  2. MorningZippo

    MorningZippo Member

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    Lol, if there was no precise way of quantifying winning, teams wouldn't spend millions of dollars a year doing it. Using a metric decided by a media with essentially no knowledge of math or modeling is clearly stupid, and (amazingly) it's exactly those people that propagate the idea that arguments is what you need, rather than quantitative measures to determine a players worth.

    Hell, essentially everyone with a PHD in a stem field deal with more complex problems daily.

    Game theory exists for crying out loud. The only reason it's not common knowledge is because the average NBA fan is comically stupid.
     
  3. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Who was more important to the Bucks in the finals.....Middleton or Holiday? And can you definitely prove that your answer is correct?
     
  4. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Yes, I understand your argument. However, it fails because it assumes that Draymond Green and Klay Thompson would've been all-stars independent of Curry. I can see Thompson being an all-star anywhere. Draymond Green? Not so much.
     
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  5. HardenVolumeOne

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    even mods agree that this list is probably the most accurate out right now, and doesnt use personal feelings

    https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2106062&start=100

    look at the last 2 posts
     
  6. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Are you aware that on page 2, a moderator says that Curry's ranking is "really too low"? A different moderator says that the formula "ignores context".
     
  7. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Wow.
     
  8. HardenVolumeOne

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    The problem is a lot of those posters on realgm take ben taylors( who is a grifter) word as gospel. Even tho NOBODY knows how he comes up with his formula of ranking players. Therefore this is the best we have currently because you are encompassing everything in that players career. I feel a lot nba media members from si, to cbs sports, to espn like curry so in turn they try and push curry to as close to lebron on the all-time scale when he doesnt have near the same accolades and personal achievements to try and control the narrative
     
  9. HardenVolumeOne

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    that seems like a pretty cut and dry explanation for me
     
  10. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    And that's why it's not a good list. It rewards longevity over peak while ignoring the goal of playing (to win a title).
     
  11. HardenVolumeOne

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    if you overvalue peak, than you would have a lot of one hit wonders in the top 25 like bill walton and tmac who had an insane peak season in 2002
     
  12. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    Without providing actual weights on all those data points, it's impossible to judge if this a reasonable method or not. A lot of the components are repeating information from other components. All in all, this looks like it is significantly slanting a player's ranking according to regular season accolades/stats.

    It might be interesting to apply his method separately to regular season and playoffs and see what rankings he arrives at for each.
     
  13. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Do you really think one-hit wonders would be discussed on the GOAT list? That list also fails to account for playoff failures. Karl Malone was notorious for under-performing in the playoffs, but he's ranked 13th.

    Again, any list that ignores winning is an extremely flawed and easily dismissed list.
     
  14. JumpMan

    JumpMan Contributing Member
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    This is where I'm at with this. When I started thinking about Giannis's ranking on those lists, I thought it was fine, but wrong at the same time because of his age. With a normal trajectory that a player of his age and accomplishments takes, you gotta think he ends up cementing a spot in the top 15.
     
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  15. JumpMan

    JumpMan Contributing Member
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    Also, Isiah Thomas's ranking is way off on these types of lists. Only small PG that led his team to back-to-back titles, seriously contended in at least 2 other years, and beat Bird, Magic, and Jordan when those guys had adequate supporting casts. It's just that he had a relatively short career, earned few accolades, and didn't accumulate many stats.
     
  16. HardenVolumeOne

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    the original author incorporates data from both the playoffs and regular season TOGETHER. why would you want them seperate. The reason you include them together is because not all players on this list made the playoffs every year.
     
  17. HardenVolumeOne

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    karl malone has a lot of mvp calibur seasons and has a whopping 11 all-nba 1ST TEAM SELECTIONS, while also making 1st team all-defense 4 seperate times

    karl malone maybe a scumbag, but he had a great nba career.

    The problem with many of these other rankings out there is that they include their personal feelings towards that said player. The thing i like about the author of this ranking is that he is using the numbers and even had a ranking system that he revised to even make playoffs more important than the regular season and harden still finished above steph curry.
     
  18. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    he ranks an average to below average player on FIBA list
     
  19. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Are you aware that you aren't rebutting my argument at all? I said Malone was notorious for underwhelming playoff performances, and you're listing his regular season achievements. Typical Harden fan.

    A ranking system that doesn't consider winning is a trash system. Again, the objective of playing is to win a title.
     
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  20. bmelo

    bmelo Member

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    Too early but that was one of the most impressive performances in the playoffs ever. Game 6 50burger that's Jordan level
     

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