Did James Harden prove tonight that the voters got it right?

the harden "no defense" video damaged harden's rep, it went so viral that the tnt crew picked it up and named harden shaqtin a fool, which led to harden being left off every single all-nba team in 2016. If not for Mike Dantoni rescuing james hardens career, he would have probably never even won any type of other award ever again because of that video.. Harden was among the best defenders at the guard position in 2019 and 2020 and didnt recieve a single all-defense vote. KEEP IN MIND THAT VIRAL VIDEO WAS MADE BY A ROCKETS POSTER FROM CLUTCHFANS. No other fanbase would do something so stupid

 

Lol that video didn't come out of thin air dude. It's not like an agenda was specifically created towards Harden because of some trait off the court. He genuinely was horrible on defense in 2016.

 

That year was cursed because he was dating a Kardashian.

 

The Harden era was molded by a Warriors wall that caused an extreme style change to even have a chance at beating them. That style had a direct effect on the players and fans. Read the Ryan Anderson critique of playing on our team. Keep an open mind when doing so. The reason he was playing poorly at home games was due to the reaction from fans wanting more from him based on what we were paying him to do, shoot 3’s as a late shot clock option. The entire offense was designed that way. I know people hate Harden and will blame him for not winning us a chip but the question should be what team and play style was going to get us past that dynasty? The current Bucks? Lakers? ???

 

you’re responding to a guy who thinks the President controls the price of gas

 

Try and treat Mobley and green with respect

 

But our play style was proven to lose against teams like the Kawhiless Spurs.

So I'm not sure if a Harden led team could win a ring even without GSWs in the way.

Look at the teams Harden has beat in the playoffs. The best team was the CP3 Clippers and that was the series where Harden was benched in an elimination game. Other than that most of the series victories were not against that impressive teams. It's the likes of the KAT Wolves and the Westbrook Thunder.

 

A James Harden led team without another Alpha was always going to have an outsider chance but was never favorite to win it.

A stretch so to speak.

 

I think Harden's best route for a ring is being the 1B of a team. A team with Harden still needs the alpha leader to win a ring. Hence why CP3 was perfect for Harden. Didn't have the talent and prime age of Harden but definitely was the on court leader.

 

It'd be stretch, I said it and you see it with Doncic.

Being the dude who can do it all, it just leaves the other stars doing exactly less and their value is being questioned.

 

My point is much of the hate directed at Harden that continues today was based on a style of play that he and the rest of the team were paid to do. Iam not defending him as a hugger but player narratives tend to be based solely on the outcome of winning it all regardless of the context . An example today is CP3. Haters love the choke narrative but the truth is the Suns made the finals this year simply because he elevated everyone on that team because he fit so well with their play style and team. If anything they overachieved and he's 36 years old! I still believe we would have won a chip if a couple things had happened. The first is the luck factor, the CP3 injury essentially cost us the chip. The next year our new owner had a lot to do with the direction we went. The message was immediately to cut costs which killed our spirit. If we had an open checkbook at the time we would have improved, losing Ariza and the salary positions of him and Moute was something GSW would never do. Nor would an owner like Tsai. The problem was we inherited an owner that was not willing to go into the luxury tax AT ALL to win. He basically started lying right out of the gate. Nice message right? That is actually my biggest fear going forward. It won't matter in the end who we draft or develop as history has shown every NBA championship team has gone into the tax, and that includes this years Bucks who had incredible luck with oppositions injuries and simply was never going to face what we did. Durant by himself with literally scrubs (look at the shooting percentages) was a shoe size away from beating them. Imagine if he had one Warrior star say Curry or Klay with him. Now imagine if he had Curry/Klay/Draymond and younger Mcgee etc. That is the context Iam talking about. I pray when the time comes we get the luck we need to get over that hump. Because our problem today is not Harden. And there's nothing anyone can say to convince me it really ever was.

 

So what? A bunch of Rocket fans made highlight videos too.

People that think highlight or lowlight videos represent a player are casuals.

Besides, Harden was once pretty terrible defensively. He's gotten much better over the years which is pretty usual for high scoring guards anyways. Maybe he never gets better if the media didn't target and challenge him for it?

Like, you need to get used to the idea that fans and media will criticize players. It happened to Hakeem, it happened to Francis, it happened to Yao-Tmac, it happened to Dwight, CP3, Lowry, Dmo, Lin, whoever. Harden isn't some special little being that can't dare to be criticized by fans.

 

I'm only talking about how fans treat Harden. That poster seems to think that Rocket fans are especially cruel to him when it's really just the usual that some fans thought he could give more and do more for the team.

My whole thing about the owner not paying the tax, I don't really care too much about that. I don't believe Harden+CP3 was a championship team, I don't assume that if CP3 was healthy they would have won (and I think CP3s history shows you never assume his team will win...no matter how many games they are ahead) so I don't even agree with the premise that Tilman broke up a 'championship' team.

He broke up a really good team to be sure, but championship? I don't see it. Ariza especially was on the downslide and hasn't had a good year in quite some time and the Rockets 3rd guy was never as good, for example, as the Bucks 3rd guy. Rockets never had that 3rd guy. Capela disappeared when we needed him to and Ego was very streaky. It is what it is. I don't think that was a championship team. I think the Warriors could still have beaten that team had CP3 remained healthy and who knows about the Cavs.

 

Thats fair, some people just scream it louder and it gets echoed.

I do see an odd thing of how people treat harden here compared to giannis and his short comings last few years, or dame etc. I think harden defintiely has faults and blame and frustartions we all see, but its an odd thing for so many people to side with an owner who just got here, cheaped out, lied vs a star player who has continued to push and get better, done historic things for us, and also plays iron man level games and minutes in a time when stars are accepted to load manage, he left it on the floor in my oinion. He fell short, but I don't blame him as much as most while we cheaped out on depth and talent even staff around him.

I think tilman broke up our contention window. No title is every guaranteed, it wasn't for the bucks as they spent big while ewatching the talent and the nets grow bigger. but in the playoffs you never know, buzzer beaters and injuries happen EVERY year, so if you have that elite talent, surround him and go swing. so many timtles are won by small amrgins.

So yea he cut short our contention window, let alone the stars like paul citing ariza as teh glue. Its not different from any work enviornment but basketball is that much more dependent on cohesion if a workroom leader or culture setter leaves the envioronment can seem flat. ITs hard to quantify, but as mentioned I don't mind losing ariza...I mind not replacing him, not using his contract, replacing him with minimum contracts AND trading those said players while in the rotation....we cheaped out on beyond ariza, and to add insult to injury the owner goes and says these guys need to learn a killer mentality...I can't imagine that bron, Giannis or any star would respond to that BS any different other than get ebtter or get me out of here...something Kobe did to his beloved lakers, Jordan to His bulls, Lebron t o the cavs bc despite what STeven A smith says, basketball ain't won 1-1.

 

Forget about Harden. We're about to draft a guy who actually is a gamer.

Someone who gets better as the pressure increases rather than.... w/e it is harden does when things get tough.

 

I'm not sure it was proven, because they lost once to the spurs? Just like milwaukee was proven to lose and be swept last year and they won this year. Each year is different, each game is as well. We could've kept competing, injuries happen, all sorts of thing shappen but we are not getting talent like a core of paul and harden to not shoot our shot. None of the teams paying big money like Utah, PHx, Denver, Clippers, Lakers, Blazers, or many teams in the easy are guaranteed and they can feel they will have proven to lose because only one team wins, but anything can happen. go all in if you have that talent in your window, then in a year or 2 no ones going to complain when you have to move on

 

did he hit cluthc shots in the dlegue this year or something?

 

His production significantly increased in the playoffs vs regular season.

Wait till this dude is a mature NBA player.

I promise he won't become visibly passive aggressive towards teammates and mentally check out while casually walking the ball up the court in closing minutes of playoff games. He has too much passion.

 

Rockets are the top-2 teams from the Western Conference that year if you don't count GSW. Spurs had a healthy Kawhi for majority of the series against the Rockets, then couldn't do anything without him vs GSW.

Look up and down that 2016-2017 Rockets roster and tell me if you see another all-star caliber player.

Harden did choke that last game where Kawhi was out, but stop making it seem like he's trash. It's just annoying.

 

He had one playoff game right? and he did fantastic in it? I'm not sure that counts as clutch and better than harden, but I am pretty big IN green. I love the gleague experiment, hes got great talent. Its no exact science to predict his talent and experience as he chose a unique path, but I'm very happy to see what pans out if we get him at no 2.

Hey if harden doesn't have passion or he is overweight, maybe the rest of the league needs to lose their passion and gain wiehght?, messing around leading the league in apoints, then assistt, redefining the game. THe guy has a target on his back, scrubs like Andre robertson can get 10 million just to be known as a harden stoppers, yet for a marathon of 7 seasons, let alone one, he had historic output, and the rockets had some of our best regular seasons under him...those guys are still competing on national tv, millions to be maid, endorsements, clout, branding...its not like the reg season is easy, theres no one else doing what harden does.

ITs amazing for all the crap he gets, even the players voted him multiple mvp. The king of Grit in Jimmy butler called him teh biggest problem in the league. He has respect for those who goto battle with him when they should hate his annoying foul baiting ways. And to do that year in and out, heavy minutes, useage when all teh big stars are load managing takes a lot of grit, takes drive, desire to be great, peserverence... harden isn't reliant on his athelticism, hes a skill player. he gets it done, I don't need the guy to scream in my face to show me he is a true baller.

And while he was playing those record useage, minutes, games when otehrs are sitting rockets cheaped out on depth, stars. Thats why the guy twho owns property in houston, moved his family here, has an active foundation, has invested in several local businesses, and heck he had a rockets red themed restaurant opened this year...somehow it doesn't sound like him, Morey, brown, MDA, Bzdelik, Tucker, all just wanted out in the whim...maybe a new owner came n with a budget mandate. And in FEb 19 after harden came back to locker room after another heavy useage night to see James Ennis, the guy they replaced Ariza with, be traded for a top 55 protected pick and an empty locker while hes on a minimum contract...and a month earlier another locker room sat empty bc we cut Daniel house for tax reasons for 2 months...he may be wondering this 'culture' thing tilman keeps screaming about was just another used car salesman talking junk to anyone whose still sheepish enough to listen to him?

Harden had his flaws. I've thrown my phone at the screen and wondered...but hell, giannis, lebron, kd...you name it, kobe, mj...they would've all demanded out of that trade. Yo uever see kobe demand out of his beloved lakers while insulting his current teammates? You ever see MJ demand more help late 80s after dominating individually while coming up short for 7 years? Maybe lebron going to join better talent after also dominating for 7 years while his team made money off of him? And green...well after his 7 years are up, you think hes not going to see the rest of the big wig franchises spending and opening up and not want to leave if tilman does the same thing, make his job harder AND blame him publicly afterwards? cmon

"
Paul said, via Chotiner:

"'I educated [Davis] on why I thought the team wouldn't be . . . ' He paused. 'All athletes are competitive and confident, until reality sets in. And I educated him on things.'"

Paul laid out what superstars need to see from teams to give a long-term commitment.

"You either need your team in place, or you need flexibility, assets, money, and the ability to make decisions. And, more important, the willingness to pay the [luxury] tax ... This ain't 'Moneyball.'"

Paul was referring to a team either being ready to compete, having future flexibility to improve the team, and being willing to pay the so-called luxury tax for spending over the salary cap. According to Chotiner, the Pelicans were not willing to pay it at the time and thus kept their payroll below a certain level.