Flying in an airplane is like being inside a petri dish. Put an N95 mask and stay away from maskless people
Yeah, we're going to drive. They're (the kids) pretty solid at masking. Couple hotel stays though, otherwise airbnbs. Mostly outdoor stuff planned... though we did want to go to the Georgia Aquarium
I'll be flying inside a Petri dish to Hawaii then. I'm vaccinated and all that good stuff, but good advice on the N95 mask.
I now have 5 potentially 6 family members with covid. I had 1 the entire pandemic before. Some vaccinated and some not. The unvaccinate are a lot more sick. Bad bodyaches, hard to break fever, sore throat, chills, and no taste or smell. The vaccinated mainly have headaches and sore throat and a little tired. Not sure if it is coincidence but looks like vaccine is at least keeping them from getting more sick.
Update on my 10 yr old niece, she's coughing more and said she lost sense of smell but not taste. Nothing too concerning, they're taking her o2 levels every night. Be careful out there yall. IIRC covid was called "novel" because it's a virus our immune system hasn't identified as a threat before. The vaccine is like putting wanted posters out there to identify antibodies so that it's quicker for white blood cells to catch on before it spreads out of control.
what do you mean you don’t know if this is coincidence?? Do this many people really not know how vaccines work?
I know, right? Everyone knows that Bill Gate’s has been kind to all the people he microchipped by only setting them to “partially sick mode” whenever they catch the fake virus.
He could have been sarcastic, but I honestly think a lot of people don't know or have their heads stuck in the sand. It's amazing the mental gymnastics some of these guys go thru to discount that vaccines help prevent serious illness. However, I think the vaccine messaging to the resistant has been poor and not targeted to them well. Not sure what would get them to take it, but the messaging hardens them even more against it.
If your aunt can get 1 shot then that would be great. More at the link, but I copied the major stuff. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782139 July 14, 2021 Study Suggests Lasting Immunity After COVID-19, With a Big Boost From Vaccination What We’ve Learned Nussenzweig’s team found that antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 continue to evolve up to a year after infection. Vaccines improve the immune response. Compared with 6 months prior, participants who were not vaccinated maintained most of their plasma antibodies against the virus’s receptor binding domain (RBD) and their plasma had similar neutralizing activity against a nonreplicating virus engineered with the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein. Their memory B cells that produce anti-RBD antibodies were only slightly lower in number than at the previous visit and had evolved to produce a broader and more potent range of antibodies. However, their plasma had less neutralizing activity against the variants B.1.1.7 (alpha), B.1.351 (beta), B.1.526 (iota), and P.1 (gamma), with the greatest loss of activity against the beta variant first detected in South Africa. Compared with unvaccinated participants, those who had received at least 1 dose had higher plasma anti-RBD antibodies and a nearly 50-fold increase in neutralizing activity. According to Nussenzweig, vaccination boosts the memory antibodies that develop after infection, producing an “outstanding response.” In this group, neutralizing antibody levels against the variants surpassed the levels observed against the wild-type virus in infected or fully vaccinated individuals in other studies. Additional research supports this. Two teams, in North America and the UK, recently published studies in Science demonstrating that a single dose of an mRNA vaccine substantially enhances the immune response to SARS-CoV-2 variants among patients with a prior infection—a phenomenon some are calling “hybrid immunity.” What About the Delta Variant? In early July, the World Health Organization forecast that the delta variant, originally detected in India, was poised to soon outcompete other variants globally. A recent study by researchers in France, also published in Nature, included an analysis of recovered patients’ immunity against the highly transmissible variant. Unvaccinated health care workers appeared to have less protection against the delta and beta variants compared with alpha about a year after they recovered from mild COVID-19. While 88% of this group had neutralizing antibodies against alpha, only 47% neutralized delta. However, recovered health care workers who had received 1 dose of the AstraZeneca, Pfizer, or Moderna vaccines had a marked increase in neutralizing antibody levels against all 3 of these variants compared with their unvaccinated peers. “Vaccination of convalescent individuals boosted the humoral immune response [against delta] well above the threshold of neutralization,” the authors wrote. “These results strongly suggest that vaccination of previously infected individuals will be most likely protective against a large array of circulating viral strains, including variant [d]elta.” What About Vaccination Alone? Nussenzweig said an open question is how long immunity lasts after vaccination alone. One recent study found that at least 12 weeks after their second dose of Pfizer’s mRNA vaccine, people who were not previously infected had a surprisingly high number of SARS-CoV-2 spike protein–targeting B cells in the germinal centers of their lymph nodes, where these cells are trained to produce and perfect antibodies. Some of the antibodies generated from the B cells cross-reacted with seasonal betacoronaviruses or bound to unique regions of the virus’s spike protein, the scientists reported in Nature. According to Rachel Presti, MD, PhD, a coauthor of the study, her team’s findings suggest that the mRNA vaccine likely generates a fairly durable and broad response, although she cautioned that further evidence is needed to confirm these implications. “Unless COVID mutates enough to really escape the immune response, I don’t think we will need boosters soon,” Presti, an associate professor in the Division of Infectious Diseases at the Washington University School of Medicine in St Louis, wrote in an email. Nussenzweig said he believes immunized people who weren’t previously infected will need boosters at some point, but it’s unknown how soon that will be. In the study from France, such individuals had high neutralizing antibody levels against the alpha, beta, and delta variants 8 to 16 weeks after they received a 2-dose vaccine regimen. The Clinical Takeaway Nussenzweig predicted that variants will not cause serious illness in most people who have recovered from COVID-19. Nevertheless, he said, they should be vaccinated “because they become bulletproof when they do so.”
The ChAdOx1 vaccine is the Oxford vaccine and the BNT vaccine is the Pfizer vaccine https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891?articleTools=true
UK and other took a controversial decision to delay the 2nd shots to get a higher % of the population protected faster. And with that, comes opportunity for studies. 8 weeks seem to be the sweet spot. 3 weeks interval is the official standard. https://www.pitch-study.org/newsPub.html We studied 503 healthcare workers in Birmingham, Liverpool, Newcastle, Oxford and Sheffield, comparing short (median 3.4 weeks, range 2-5 weeks) and long (median 10 weeks, range 6-14 weeks) dosing schedules of the Pfizer vaccine. This is one of the most comprehensive studies into the immune response to COVID-19 vaccines outside of a clinical trial to date. We found that for people getting the longer dosing interval, antibodies fell over the 10 weeks after the first dose, but T cell levels were well-maintained. We know that a single dose of vaccine gives significant protection against COVID-19, so T cells may be an important part of the mechanism. The long dosing interval resulted in 2x higher neutralising antibodies against all variants of the virus tested, including the Delta variant, compared to the short dosing interval. Absolute numbers of T cells to spike were lower after the long interval compared to the short one, but the T cell response had more characteristics of a helper response promoting long term memory and antibody production. Regardless of the dosing schedule, the study found levels of antibodies and T cells varied from person to person, which may depend on genetics, underlying health conditions, and past exposure to COVID-19 and other viruses. This means our study is more relevant at a population level than for individual people, and underlies the importance of everyone getting two doses of the COVID-19 vaccine to maximise their own protection, particularly against Variants of Concern. https://www.reuters.com/business/he...y-levels-after-initial-drop-study-2021-07-22/ LONDON, July 23 (Reuters) - A longer gap between doses of Pfizer's (PFE.N) COVID-19 vaccine leads to higher overall antibody levels than a shorter gap, a British study found on Friday, but there is a sharp drop in antibody levels after the first dose. "For the longer dosing interval ... neutralising antibody levels against the Delta variant were poorly induced after a single dose, and not maintained during the interval before the second dose," the authors of the study, which is being led by the University of Oxford, said. "Following two vaccine doses, neutralising antibody levels were twice as high after the longer dosing interval compared with the shorter dosing interval." Neutralising antibodies are thought play an important role in immunity against the coronavirus, but not the whole picture, with T cells also playing a part. The study found overall T cell levels were 1.6 times lower with a long gap compared with the short dosing schedule of 3-4 weeks, but that a higher proportion were "helper" T cells with the long gap, which support long-term immune memory. The authors emphasised that either dosing schedule produced a strong antibody and T cell response in the study of 503 healthcare workers. The findings, issued as a pre-print, support the view that while a second dose is needed to provide full protection against Delta, delaying that dose might provide more durable immunity, even if that's at the cost of protection in the short-term. Last December, Britain extended the interval between vaccine doses to 12 weeks, although Pfizer warned there was no evidence to support a move away from a three-week gap. Britain now recommends an 8-week gap between vaccine doses to give more people high protection against Delta more quickly, while still maximising immune responses in the longer term. "I think the 8 week is about the sweet spot," Susanna Dunachie, joint chief investigator on the study, told reporters.
I was hesitant to say it in harsher terms....eg, are you this ignorant to decades and decades of science the result of which is you being alive today in the health you are in and the society you are in. They're vaccines... it's not complicated.
At least some picked up on the sarcasm but I could see how it might not be clear. I guess you read it assuming I'm anti vax? I was vaccinated as soon as I could be btw. The whole point was to show that in that small sample, it was working. I will leave the sarcasm out of it and be more clear next time so you don't get so worked up. I believe we are on the same side here. I was just sharing from personal experience the differences between the vaccinated and unvaccinated in my extended family with the outbreak. I know that is how the vaccine is supposed to work but it is still somewhat interesting to see it in action and to see the outliers. My vaccinated stepmother assumes she got it from going back to work but she is in a small office with others she was told were vaccinated also. She just goes to work and back home. So it is interesting that she could have potentially gotten it from a vaccinated person in passing but not passed it on to my Dad. Also, I now know of 2 vaccinated people in the hospital with covid pneumonia though. That is what still scares me.
We have done a good job getting the at risk/over 65 vaccinated in spite of politics. Obviously there are still cultural factors holding back vaccinations even in those groups but overall it’s been much better. That said I think if we were less condescending and more up front with the actual risks of everything then that might help. This vaccine is still effectively in the phase 3 trials and if someone has an adverse reaction then they have zero recourse against the manufactures. We can't just say "it's science" and be done with it. The "science" is still being conducted. Another thing is Covid simply isn't that deadly if you are under 50. People see that the risks are lower and that's part of why the under 50 vaccination rate is lower. The 18-50 demo is where vaccinations are lagging the most. It's also where the highest percent of infections have occurred. Maybe if we had a UK style program to get at least 1 shot to that 18-50 group keeping in mind that data I posted earlier then that might make a major dent in covid. In my opinion I think the 18-40 demo is the most pliable to getting the the vaccine, but also just not super motivated to do it. I'll use our UPS Store example again where we had to keep reminding people to get vaccinated because it was company policy. Maybe the government should focus less on the vaccine resistant and just continue to target the complacent people. The hardcore MAGA types and black communities I have zero clue what could be done there. It seems like calm rational conversation works the best but who knows. Maybe I'm wrong and you need a heavier handed approach. Like I've mentioned with our UPS Store example we told people they would get fired (completely legally) if they didn't get vaccinated. We had 2 younger women quit on us. I don't think either was a MAGA type.
Here is another small sample. Back in March... Late 70s couple with multiple chronic health conditions. Mid 40s (their son) in great shape with no known health conditions. All infected around the same time (they probably spread to each other). Since this was back in March, the 45 yr old wasn't qualified yet while the couple was vaccinated but not fully. They were infected about 10 days after vaccination. Couple came down with cold symptoms and loss of smell that lasted about 1 week. The son had about 2 weeks of symptoms before recovering. At the peak, didn't have the strength to walk, eat, dizzy, relatively low oxygen level, shortage of breath.. came very close to being admitted but was lucky and recovered. Vaccine are not 100% protective partly because some people immune system just don't work well with them. There are bound to be break through infection. The overall statistic, however, is holding up great for covid vaccines. Personally, even vaccinated, with Delta spreading so easily, masking is a good tool to reduce the risk.
You might be joking, or might not, but you brought to mind something I remember reading in the New York Times about a scientist specializing in infectious disease, also an MD, who took a flight during the "height" of the initial spread of the pandemic. He didn't want to, being very aware of the danger, more aware than most, but he was going to Washington for an important conference and felt he had to risk it. So he wore surgical gloves and an N95 mask, the best available. He was told by the airline that passengers were required to wear masks of some sort, and that there would be an empty seat between each passenger. The doctor gets on the jet and none of that is true. It's packed and many aren't wearing a mask at all. He said that he nearly got off and should have, but it was the only available flight. Still, he was wearing the best mask made, he had on surgical gloves, he was wearing a suit, didn't touch anything offered to him by the flight attendants, didn't go to the WC. In other words, he took every precaution. He catches the virus. The guy, about 50, is hit hard and hospitalized for several days, almost going on a ventilator, but managing not to. He is a well known researcher and I wish I could recall his name. I saw him do interviews on the news from time to time before this happened. He was an expert asked to do them. After word got out that he'd caught it and was convinced it was on that flight, he was interviewed shortly after he was released (in the article, the reporter said he looked terrible). So he's asked, "How do you think you caught Covid-19 on the flight, doctor? From what you've been quoted as saying, although the plane was packed, you took every precaution." "It was my eyes," he said, "I should have had surgical grade protective googles. It was my eyes."
