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The future of the EU and the UK, post-Brexit

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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  2. dmoneybangbang

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    The DailyMail..... give me a break.

    So many of the same issues will still arise as UK transitions from a big fish to a medium fish. The EU is still by far the UK's largest trading partner and manufacturing and the financial industry will natural move towards Europe (where most of the people and consumers are) as it's been doing leading up to this.
     
  3. dmoneybangbang

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  4. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The heads of state that make up the EU Council have unanimously approved the UK-EU trade deal. This approval is "provisional," as the EU Parliament will not take the deal up until February. The UK Parliament will debate and presumably vote on the agreement on Wednesday of this week.

    Of course if the EU Parliament were to vote down this agreement, the two sides would immediately go to WTO terms.

    EU states unanimously back Brexit trade and security deal

    The post-Brexit trade and security deal has been unanimously backed by EU member states, paving the way for the new arrangements to come into force on 1 January. At a meeting of ambassadors in Brussels, the 27 member states gave their support for the 1,246-page treaty to be “provisionally applied” at the end of the year. The decision will be formally completed by written procedure at 3pm central European time (1400 GMT) on Tuesday.

    The only obstacles standing in the way of the deal coming into force are votes by MPs and peers in the House of Commons and the House of Lords. The UK parliament has been recalled to sit on Wednesday 30 December to debate and vote on the legislation.

    The European parliament is delaying its vote, to February or March, when it is hoped MEPs will return to Strasbourg to complete the formal EU ratification process. MEPs had said they did not have sufficient time before the end of the year to scrutinise the deal.​
     
  5. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The UK Parliament voted in support of the Brexit deal today, with 521-73.

    Brexit: MPs overwhelmingly back post-Brexit deal with EU - BBC News

    EU governments approve Brexit trade deal - German EU presidency - Reuters

    Wow. 521-73! That is amazing!

    Who thought 12 months ago today - 18 days after the most recent general election - that the UK Parliament would vote on a trade deal with the EU by a margin like that? Nobody that I am aware of.

    Brexit is affirmed by the UK at the last. Congratulations to all of Great Britain and the EU on this excellent achievement!
     
  6. dmoneybangbang

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    With a Hard Brexit looming..... best take the deal as you were going to become a vassal of the EU, US, and/or China regardless.
     
  7. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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  8. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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  9. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  10. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    saitou likes this.
  11. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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  12. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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  13. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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  14. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Contributing Member
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    And the joke is that the Trump quote is real.
     
  15. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  16. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    As I feared BREXIT has partially led to clashes in Northern Ireland. The latest news I'm hearing is that Unionists are suspending rioting out of respect for the death of Prince Andrew.
    https://apnews.com/article/joe-bide...and-violence-5741c1a1efd11f1ec7d53bf6940ce079

    Rioters ignore pleas for calm as violence flares in Belfast
    By PETER MORRISON and DANICA KIRKA

    BELFAST (AP) — Police in Northern Ireland deployed water cannons for the first time in six years Thursday as they tried to disperse protesters who hurled stones, fireworks and gasoline-filled bottles at officers during another night of violence in Belfast.

    The violence erupted last week as tensions simmered between the Protestant and Catholic communities in Northern Ireland over COVID-19 lockdown restrictions that have restricted socializing and post-Brexit trade rules that have both economic and political ramifications.

    While the crowds appeared somewhat smaller Thursday, police said a further 19 officers were injured, bringing the total over the past week to 74.

    The latest violence came despite appeals from U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson, Irish Premier Micheal Martin and U.S. President Joe Biden to calm tensions.

    Northern Ireland’s justice minister, Naomi Long of the centrist Alliance Party, appealed for an end to the “depressing and reckless” scenes.

    “My heart goes out to those living in the area who are living with this fear and disturbance,″ she wrote on Twitter. “This needs to stop now before lives are lost.”

    Earlier Thursday, the Northern Ireland Assembly had unanimously passed a motion calling for an end to the disorder. The region’s power-sharing government, which includes representatives from both sides of the sectarian divide, condemned the violence.

    “While our political positions are very different on many issues, we are all united in our support for law and order and we collectively state our support for policing and for the police officers who have been putting themselves in harm’s way to protect others,” leaders of the five-party government said in a joint statement.

    “We, and our departments, will continue to work together to maximize the support we can give to communities and the (Police Service of Northern Ireland) to prevent further violence and unrest.”

    Northern Ireland has seen sporadic outbreaks of street violence since the 1998 Good Friday agreement ended “the Troubles” — decades of bloodshed in which more than 3,000 people died.

    While the peace accord ended the killing, tensions remain between those who see themselves as British and want to remain part of the United Kingdom, and those who seek reunification with the Republic of Ireland to the south. The two sides of the debate split largely on religious lines, with Protestants generally favoring the status quo and Catholics campaigning for reunification.

    Britain’s exit from the European Union has heightened those tensions amid concerns about the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic. In an effort to keep the border open, Britain agreed to conduct some checks on goods at ports in Northern Ireland rather than at the frontier, the U.K.’s only land border with the EU.

    Those who favor union say the new checks amount to the creation of a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom — something they fear undermines their place in the U.K.

    The unionists are also angry at prosecutors’ decision not to prosecute politicians who attended the funeral of a former Irish Republican Army commander in June. The funeral of Bobby Storey drew a large crowd, despite coronavirus rules barring mass gatherings.

    The main unionist parties have demanded the resignation of Northern Ireland’s police chief over the controversy, claiming he has lost the confidence of their community.

    But law enforcement officials warn that sectarian divisions are also being exploited by paramilitary groups that use the violence to further criminal activities.

    “There are young people who are being cynically used by older more sinister elements of society, more than likely aligned to what we would call paramilitary (groups), but which anywhere else are criminal organizations, large criminal gangs,” Mark Lindsey, chairman of the Police Federation of Northern Ireland, told the BBC on Wednesday.
     
  17. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Ben Habib makes the case in today's UK Telegram that the only way to stop the EU from taking control of Northern Ireland is for the UK to 'trigger Article 16'.

    Here is what Article 16 from the Revised Protocol to the Withdrawal Agreement on Ireland/Northern Ireland (Link is a PDF):

    Article 16 - Safeguards
    1. If the application of this Protocol leads to serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties that are liable to persist, or to diversion of trade, the Union or the United Kingdom may unilaterally take appropriate safeguard measures. Such safeguard measures shall be restricted with regard to their scope and duration to what is strictly necessary in order to remedy the situation. Priority shall be given to such measures as will least disturb the functioning of this Protocol.
    2. If a safeguard measure taken by the Union or the United Kingdom, as the case may be, in accordance with paragraph 1 creates an imbalance between the rights and obligations under this Protocol, the Union or the United Kingdom, as the case may be, may take such proportionate rebalancing measures as are strictly necessary to remedy the imbalance. Priority shall be given to such measures as will least disturb the functioning of this Protocol.
    3. Safeguard and rebalancing measures taken in accordance with paragraphs 1 and 2 shall be governed by the procedures set out in Annex 7 to this Protocol.

    However subtly and methodically they go about it, the EU effectively taking over Northern Ireland must properly be regarded as an unacceptable impingement on British sovereignty that must be repelled by whatever means are required. In this case, the most non-violent and peaceable approach will be the triggering of Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol, which Prime Minister Johnson has previously stated that he will be willing to do, if it comes to that.

    The EU is intransigent, as usual. Lord Frost has this week stated that the terms of the withdrawal agreement need to be revisited to enable this unacceptable problem to be dealt with in a diplomatic and sustainable manner. The EU is digging its heals in, and clearly is not going to cooperate.

    As a result, it appears that Ben Hadid is correct with regards to the observations made in his article, linked above. Article 16 needs to be invoked and the trade impediments in the English channel need to be unilaterally alleviated. The EU will not like this. However, the UK does not like the prospect of the EU effectively annexing Northern Ireland. So this is the apparent short term solution to that conundrum.
     
  18. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    After 800 years of occupation of Ireland, this particular sentence strikes me as ironically comical.
     
  19. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    King John would be proud.

    Seriously though the UK unilaterally withdrawing Northern Ireland from the UK will restart the Troubles.
     
    MadMax likes this.
  20. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    Lessons learned?
     
    pirc1 and dmoneybangbang like this.

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