Ellis is actually pretty comparable. He was injured most of his career, a fate I could easily see happening to Mobley. BTW, Ellis was a better offensive player and Mobley will be a better defensive player.
I remember articles where Sampson talked about his struggles in being able to gain weight. If he gained weight it certainly wasn't enough to make a difference.
Lol ….Yikes not KJ - that dude had bounce and only bounce, couldn’t take two dribbles or shoot for sh*t
Agree D-Rock….isn’t this the league where Hartenstein averaged almost 30 points a game for a long stretch of the season. Green averaged 17 and Kuminga 16 good for their first year, but not unbelievably great and next Kobe numbers. If Green dedicates his game to making more defensive effort and offensive rebounding effort, maybe his -29 plus minus type numbers will improve and he becomes worthy of the second pick. That’s my hope as it’s been said (by someone who spoke to Olajuwon) that he’s a lock for the second pick at this time.
95% of all NBA players once viewed themselves as a n alpha and that is even higher with all of the guys who have played with him in AAU. The fact that you think he would not accept a stand in corner role because he thinks he is an alpha should be a red flag. John Wall thinks he is still an alpha and we see how that has worked. This is not to throw shade at you Ottomaton, you are entitled to your opinion but I have never seen a prospect get as much stroke because of their perceived work ethic and alphaness. What happens if he is not as good as he thinks he is and his team needs him to be more of a role guy? Will he just continue to try and be an alpha to the detriment of his team? I see you addressed that but you don't see that as a concern?
Ellis is terrible comp. Ellis did not move nearly as well and did not have nearly his handles or passing ability. Ellis was never considered a great defensive guy. Ellis was shorter as well.
No, I'm saying judging college players can be deceptive. I admit judging G-league players is as well. College is more about getting to the conference tournament and then March Madness NCAA tournament. G-league is what use to be called D-league; which stood for developmental league. Teams asks these affiliate teams to play pro style offense and defense. NFL preseason they play man-to-man defense to see the players strengths or weaknesses vs man-to-man. Man-to-man takes more skill as you are isolated vs a player and can't cheat. Zone is more about playing a zone and keeping track of the players entering that zone.....takes less effort and less skill required. In the NBA they rarely lay zone. The last team to play a bunch of zone was the Heat in 19/20 and before then 18/19 Raptors that hid Marc Gasol in zone while winning it all. Now it's getting harder and harder to play true zone like 2-3 or 3-2 zone. The zone buster is good perimeter shooting. Now teams are putting 4 to 5 decent 3-pt shooters on the perimeter. Sun's have e drone shooting 3's......Ayton is even 20% from 3. You won't be able to hide Evan Mobley in a 2-3 or 3-2 zone. Teams are learning to keep Big "Bigs" on the court by switching in space. Similar to when the Warriors switched in space in order to hide Steph Curry poor defense. Bigs are being switched in order to keep them near the rim. You can watch a any tape of a team with a slower big and see this. The Nets tried to switch in space and keep Blake Griffin near the rim. _______________________ So Jalen Green vs G-league: many NBA draft picks selected from around 12 in the 1st round to end of 2nd round play a stint in the G-league. Capela played in the G-league, Zhou Qi, Vince Edwards for example. Players that wanted to play in G-league we're Michael Beasley, Mario Chalmers, Lance Stephenson, Enema Okafor, Shabazz Muhammad.....all good college players in the past. Jalen Green was introduced to NBA defense vs better talent for longer stretches of minutes. He, teams, his trainers / handlers identified his weaknesses defensively vs former college property that are keeping their dreams alive like Lamb and Armoni Brooks (who were decent college players) and recent draft picks that are transitioning into the NBA. Some NBA players coming back from injury doing a stint in G-league games. I put more weight in that play. . Evan Mobley: I was watching Colorado vs USC in the conference tournament. Commentator mentioned that USC had played a lot of man-to-man early in the season but changed to predominantly zone a month prior in preparation for the NCAA tournament. I don't score players in zone defense because it rarely translates well to the NBA. I was not impressed with the USC zone defense vs Colorado, nor was I impressed with their play vs Gonzaga which was the other full game of USC that I completed. I'm not a fan of the USC schedule, quality of opponents. Johnny Juzang, Josh Christopher, Chris Duarte are the only players I would give a nickle for. Ziaire Williams was a disappointment. Efe Abogidi shows promise. ____________________ Overall I prefer Jalen Green knowing what he needs to work on defensively before coming to the Rockets than Evan Mobley who was hidden in zone defense vs some of the better college players who will be exposed once he gets to the NBA and a year of development behind where Jalen Green is now. As noted in the podcast of Evan Mobley scouting report posted yesterday. They noticed 6'5" guards moving Evan Mobley off his mark. Much of the Mobley weaknesses are hidden in that USC zone defensively, but he will have to be isolated defensively vs NBA talent......and no Isaiah Mobley to protect him.
Well I was mainly bringing up that a lot of players look great in college and have amazing stats.....but don't always translate to the next level. I've mentioned John Henson was that way. Ellis teammate Jeff Withey was highly regarded in college. In the skinny version I could say Perry Jones from Baylor had trouble transitioning to the NBA.
This goes for everybody who will be drafted this year. For some reason a lot of people think Green is a can't miss prospect.
Well, can't miss shouldn't be used. Jay Williams was can't miss and then he had a motorcycle accident that ended his career. Len Bias overdose or reaction ended things. So I don't like using the words can't miss. Any player can miss. This is true.
Don't know why you had to go to that extreme, there are top 5 guys who bust every draft and nothing physical happen to them. Just look at the Bagley hype.
You should watch the USC vs Utah Pac 12 Tournament game where Mobley led his team with 26 points and 5 blocks on 11-16 shooting when the chips were actually on the line!
I've always been a fan of Sampson's and can still remember watching him hit The Shot in game 5 against the Lakers in the 1986 WC Finals , eliminating the defending champs in an upset. Couldn't help but notice your back and forth with @D-rock about certain players (including Ralph) and their weight while in the league, so out of curiosity I did a little digging. Below is a 1994 article about Sampson at age 34, trying to make a comeback with the help of John Lucas, new GM and coach of the 76ers and an old friend. The image below shows a Ralph Sampson "bigger" than I can recall ever seeing him. Doesn't show his legs, which could be as slender as they ever were, but his health problems weren't caused by his weight (whatever it was), but by injuries, injuries I think modern training and medical care could have had far more success treating than in the mid-eighties, when they occurred. Thought you two might enjoy the quick read, which mentions his playing weight, not just his weight when he was drafted, usually what was listed in publications in his heyday. ON PRO BASKETBALL; Comeback Kid? Ralph Sampson Can't Run, but Refuses to Hide By Harvey Araton Oct. 5, 1994 Spoiler Ralph Sampson pulled his University of Virginia T-shirt over his head, and bared an upper body in sublime condition. His shoulders and arms were sculptures of muscle. His stomach was flat. His waist was sleek. At 34 years of age, Sampson's face was smooth, handsome, young. Smiling and shaking hands with the players around him, he appeared to be just like them, in the glorious prime of athletic life. And then Sampson was asked to run. It was nothing strenuous, merely a fullcourt, three-line layup drill, but it was almost as painful to watch as it appeared for Sampson to move. The stilted activity of a man 7 feet 4 inches tall amounted to itty-bitty steps, careful steps. Once renowned for magnificent, loping strides, Sampson hobbled along yesterday morning inside the St. Joseph's University field house at a golfer's pace. "Didn't move well," he would later admit. "Felt stiff. I worked out last night. Probably shouldn't have." "I'm looking for a chemistry guy, not a guy who can play every night," declared Lucas, by training and nature a sucker for anyone down on his luck. "A guy who knows what he's doing, who can help a young center like Shawn Bradley." This role, by no coincidence, appeared to be scripted for Sampson, if only he could play just a bit. Bradley is a 7-6, 245-pound string bean who last season, his first, often looked like a foal struggling to stand on all fours. Sampson's playing weight never exceeded 240 pounds. If anyone could tutor Bradley on how to compensate for lack of low-post bulk, Lucas seemed to be saying, it would be him. Just Sampson's luck. Not five minutes into a scrimmage, Bradley took an elbow from Rick Mahorn, the marauding New Jersey Net down for a workout. Bradley went off to the hospital to get stitched. Sampson, flat-footed and immobile, spent the rest of the morning fending off primitive rushes to the basket by Mahorn, James Donaldson, Scott Williams and Clarence Weatherspoon. Except for a few slick passes, it wasn't pretty. Who could have imagined a decade ago that Rick Mahorn would have outlasted Sampson in the N.B.A.? Mahorn, 36, his gut sagging like a sloppy heavyweight's, has another year on his Nets contract. Meanwhile, Robert Parish, now in Charlotte to play alongside Grandmama, recently became a grandpapa. Moses Malone mumbles on in San Antonio, while Bill Cartwright will be waddling downcourt at least one more season in Seattle. Aging centers are the left-hand-hitting catchers of pro basketball. Manute Bol lasted a decade in the N.B.A., for crying out loud. The point is made to amplify just how bad Sampson's thrice-cut, arthritic knees were when his career began to unravel in 1988. And how unfair the general characterization of him as the greatest N.B.A. flop of all time has always been. And one more thing, as our sports pages fill with news of strikes and lockouts: Sampson's story reveals how fragile, how subject to sudden death, is the career of every professional athlete. Healthy, he wasn't about to come close to being what he was billed, the next Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. He had no signature shot and, on those stick legs, was too easily pushed out of the paint. Sampson did score 1,720 points and grab 913 rebounds as a rookie. He did, with Hakeem Olajuwon, take Houston past Pat Riley's Lakers to the N.B.A. finals in 1986. So people kept asking him yesterday how a three-time N.B.A. All-Star, could stoop to these humbling tryouts. Sampson, sitting on a stool with ice packs adorning both knees, said: "I want to be around the game." Maybe he has come to the right place. Lucas, himself a recovering substance abuser, has become the home office for social redemption in professional sports. His Houston drug center has become the popular bottoming out spot for American athletes, from various sports. In San Antonio, his first coaching stop, Lucas made George Gervin, who rehabbed at his clinic, assistant coach. Here in Philly, Lucas hired Mo Cheeks, the great Sixers point guard, to be his assistant. World B. Free, the onetime mad bomber from Brownsville, Brooklyn, is on staff. Grant Gondrezick, another Lucas Center alum, is trying out. Or maybe Sampson is asking too much, even of Lucas. Maybe Sampson is kidding himself. "If I am, I'll know soon enough," he said. "It won't be a waste of time, though. I've got three little kids at home. At least I'll be in shape to run after them." Not very fast, unfortunately, or very far. (A version of this article appears in print on Oct. 5, 1994, Section B, Page 13 of the National edition with the headline: ON PRO BASKETBALL; Comeback Kid? Ralph Sampson Can't Run, but Refuses to Hide.) https://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/05/...ph-sampson-can-t-run-but-refuses-to-hide.html
He could be Ben Mcelmore, he could be Buddy Hield, He could end up like Bradley beal, he could be Zach Lavine...he could also end up being the first Jalen Green. I give him some openness because he chose a path none of the above have. As a teenager instead of going to college, having limited training time schedules, limited access to the pro coaching...he went ot the gleague to play with guys who mostly starred in college and are borderline right outside the nba, where they goto showcase and eat bc they aere a game away from that big contract. The level of coaching, competition, and NBA style makes it wee bit easier to scout guys like that. Furthermore, go look up any players in rookie year or before. Sam Cassel was talking about how vets like him would tear up future all stars in the UCLA runs. They are savvy, experienced, and get "it". I wouldn't let a gleague game for an 18 year old indicct his future. heck you can go find a lot of video of mobley and Cade missing assignments or being a foot slow, but the idea is their potential and tools and what they can becomt. You can't evaluate Giannis on his rookie year, You can't believe who Leonard is going to be in their rookie year...heck even Kobe and KD were TERRIBLY inefficient, but somehow they grew int oit. So we need more tape to know what he ticks, but he has a lot of promising tools. I'm definitely hopeful for Cade, but unlike other guys if we end up with beal 2.0 or lavine 2.0I hink thats pretty damn good and rare to get. OF course we want that special sauce and I'm hoping for it too. But green, with right culture, environment, etc can be a defender bc he has the athletic tools. Now how we develop him becomes more important. Lets remember, Ayton just said Chris Paul was teh best thing to his career. No one here would pay Paul 40 million for our current team, but then again we may have short changed how verteran leadership, having clout and demanding more of these young prima donnas can change how they approach the game. So we may get green and lose the talent a la Tyreke Evan in Sacramento, or maybe we develop him write. GET VETS, get vets in our coaching staff, the whole way and build a winner. The depths ,details, margins matters Tilly. INVEST IN THIS TEAM
Exactly! The great ones are ULTRA competitive, drives them crazy to lose at anything. While the Green game-hype has been a bit much, I do like his intangibles a lot.
This has only been touched in but I think is hugely important. Whoever the Rockets select is going to be the A,#1 most important asset on the team. The remainder of the roster will either fit with this guy or be traded. I worry that Green's game won't fit with other guys who dominate the ball. Aside from KPJ, what if the Rockets have a chance at a Jaden hardy or William Baldwin next season? I like Mobley better but concede that he and green are similar talents. One thing I like about Mobley is the flexibility he provides. You can build any kind if team around him. That's not the case with green. Now, if he is Kobe or MJ none if this matters if course. Food for thought.
At least it wouldn't be a big big big big mistake A 4 layered mistake cake is the type we ate when trading CP for WB
