T-Rock will not be on the IR!!!!!!! Webber would be great to our team, we would bring the big PF and C outside to guard him, therefore it would open up the lane for someone like EG to bang the boards on smaller SF and pick up boards and score on trash. When EG is outside, Web would be inside and crash teh boards and pick up trash points, they would compliment each other. Webb is a proven veteran, and EG can learn from him. And T-Rock is like the same player EG is, Francis will bring out the best in him, and he will show everyone why he was thought of a lottery talent! People will be thinking the same thing the Rockets thought when they pass on Lewis, look at him now. On a side note, does anyone else here think we need another guard ont he bench in case Cat or Franchise gets hurt?? better safe than sorry! ------------------ T-Rock is a God, T-Mo is the man, put them together you have a god thats a man!
hardword, The main issue about "necessary" is that Webber is extremely costly to us. We have to renounce Hakeem and lose all our exceptions to get him. Without the exceptions, we'll have a difficulty time keeping Mo', Dream, and moochie...not to mention getting any other veteran free agents. Basically, if we get Webber, you only have about $2m more to spend this year (and the Drew exception) to keep Mo, Dream and get more help. That is dangerous. to me, it is safer to save our money, and look for ideal workhorses to support our 4-headed offense...SF, CM, Mo', Eddie!! Achebe, Shandon Jefferson has been replaced by Terence. He signed the wrong agent, and as a GM, I am not dealing with Fegan's delusions of grandeur for sure. Regarding a backup 2. Francis and Mobley are both true 2s. If Mobley goes down, Moochie would start and Francis would slide over without skipping a beat. We are fine at the 2. We need safety net at the 1, more than the 2, imo.
Colson can be that extra guard we need on the roster really. I think he's a decent ballplayer, although he's a little undersized. If he gets a chance he could be an ideal bench player. Not 6th man or anything but a little relief every now and then. What makes the future even brighter for the Rockets is that if Morris becomes what he once could have been, we will have every position locked up with good players for a long while. That is a big if though, but think of a the lineup...Steve, Cat, TRock, Griffen, (hustling,shotblocking C). That lineup would contend for years if Morris gets back on track. ------------------ Who needs teachers? I can learn my own self. DieHard Mock Time
So... i was just wondering. Anyone still cares about Rashard and 'Reef? Yeah, thought so Seriously, i'd rather resign Dream and Mo than getting Webber. We would complete a young core good enough to mature over the years, and still get some cap relief when Dream setires. All we need now is for us to get rid of Cato, Walt and Langhi, maybe even KT if necessary, and get someone who can play solid backup 5, like Brad Miller. Or if we happen to be lucky enough, Raef Lafrentz. ------------------ Just ship Cato's ass outta town. Plain and simple. [This message has been edited by Thanos (edited June 28, 2001).]
Langhi is staying. Rudy has already said it today. No use mentioning trading him. If he can lose the nervousness (read--airballs), he can be an excellent weakside threat in most any offense. Pure shooters off the bench for the 2nd quarter and for 3pt-shooting comeback attempts are quit useful. As for KT, he has the best rebounding instincts on the team (awaiting Griffin), and plays solid defense with excellent lateral movement. Find a taller shotblocker than Griffin to add to the team and KT does not hurt us on D. Remember, he was defending some centers this year when Dream, Cato and Collier were down. And his rookie season he was again without support D. Give Kenny support D, he is an excellent role player for injury protection and some actual scoring in a true rotation.
IMO Webber is not a necessity, but would be nice to have. I also think it will be interesting to see what impact the Williams trade has on Webber's decision. I'm not that worried about the touches. I think Webber's primary concern right now is finding a home on a contender...and the Rockets are certainly a team fast on the rise. I think Webb would be happy to give up touches to get a ring. I am a bit concerned about backloading his contract, although it would be nice right now since it might give us the space to address some of our own free agents. Regardless, having Webber down the road might just be the sort of trade bait we will need. So I think there are definite advantages to going after Webber. Shandon is gone. From Clutch's comments earlier, it seems that Langhi and Walt may be traded (if we do, will they *please* take Cato too?). I think my biggest concern right now is at the 5. I would *love* to have Hakeem back (I still believe he should retire a Rocket), but it doesn't look to be happening unless he agrees to a lot less than he's saying he wants. Besides, assuming we were to work our a deal with Webber and have both of them, we would be strapped for cash both this year and next. I couldn't see us making another move if the opportunity came along. On that note: Does anyone know who is going to be available next year? It's just possible that we might find someone there who would fit with the team better than either Hakeem or Webber. Cato is obviously a waste of roster space, but how do we get out from under his contract. Is it possible that Chicago is still interested? Is anyone interested? If not, we may have to wait until mid-season and try to find a team that is absolutely desperate for a warm body to take up space on the court (Cato can certainly do that) and try to work a deal then. Crazy thought that I'm sure won't work for a multitude of reasons that you will certainly point out shortly, but...is it *possible* to find a team out there that could sign Hakeem outright and trade him to us for Cato? Those are my two cents for the moment. It is certainly shaping up to be an interesting offseason! ------------------ "What did you mean when you opened your mouth and let all our secrets out?"
subjogate,subjugate,Watergate,oh well Anyway HP,after reading everyone's posts I see what your saying,but what if Chris would take less on the frontend(thus saving capspace)Hell,I don't know if he would even do it.Would that work?..and then there is the possibility of Dream easing up a bit on those demands to play for us.I know reupping Mooch is important and I too want flexibility as far as free agents.Yes, the Mo and Dream route makes plenty of sense(with plenty coming off the cap again later) and is the safer route...As you know we lose Mo in my scenario and I'm not crazy about that,but as Edward G.Robinson said in Key Largo...."more?,yeah that's what I want, more!"....In the end,I think you all will probably be right on this,just casting that Dream out there.... ------------------ Everybody has a little bit of Watergate in em - Billy Graham [This message has been edited by hardwood (edited June 28, 2001).]
hardwood, balloon payments are not allowed in the NBA. Webber would be restricted to 10% simple interest raises off his base salary (1st yr). Of course, we can give him a 25% "unlikely bonus" such as a ring! I am not sure, but I think a ring counts as an "unlikely bonus" for the Rockets. The league office would have to accept that. By contrast, "Likely bonuses" count as salary and are max'd by standard salary max scales.
I agree with everything Heypartner has said ------------------ PrEsident of The Danforth Langhford FAN CLUB... He IS our future All-Star Small Forward
Ok,lets see,as of right NOW this is how I think the minutes will spread out min) C-Olajuwon(25)/Cato(10)/Mo(13) Pf-Mo(20)/Griff(10)/KT(20)/Collier(0) Sf-Griffin(20)/Trock(20/Langhi(8) SG-Cat(35)/Francis(10)/Langhi(3) rudy already tried him there PG-Francis(28)/Moochie(20) And you have Bull & wiz at the end od the bench chtting the whole 48mins about golf! Now,Webber would demand at least 40 min,there wont be enough time OR touches for him with griff now here,we need to develop him into a 4 for the future so he needs minutes there. ------------------ Bigamy is having one wife too many.Monogamy is the same
If we can get Webber and this is all it costs us we should do it in a millisecond. I am not worried about Moochie, we could offer (or at least promise) long term contract at the veteran minimum or exemption down the line. If he leaves with that pretty good offer, well, he leaves. You don't risk not signing a player of Webber's caliber because you might not sign your back up guard, a fantastic but old hero who has 1 or 2 seasons left, or a decent but pricey PF who has very noticable weaknesses despite bringing some very good things to the table. Great teams need great players. And Webber is a great player, by far the best player available. I can't see why anyone would prefer to pay Mo 8 mill a year or Davis (who is older than Webber) around the max but would not salivate over Webber. Combine the best things about Davis and Mo and they still can't hold Webber's jock, at in the same ball-park of cost (thankfully there is a league max now). Webber is a fantastic passer, makes his teammates look great, rebounds well, blocks shots, and most importantly, is in his prime. By all means, we try to get him here as a FA. Besides, I am as happy as anyone with Griffen, but I am not expecting any offense to specially run through him untill well before Webber merely becomes a good versus great player(say after 4 years). I am expecting Griffen to mainly contribute in other ways for the next few years. C Webb and a journeyman center or two puts us in the title chase, we have to try to get him at only a cost of money (not a player trade). If it doesn't work out we can still count ourselves very lucky this offseason.
Rocket Guard: I'd be very surprised if Griffin only plays 20 minutes a game. High schoolers often don't get much pt... but one year seems to make quite a bit of difference for the sublimely talented (see Lamar Odom). I don't think Morris will be looking at 20 mins per game. In fact, I'm not sure he'll supercede Langhi on the depth chart, especially with Rudy's loyalty issues. I think the duel between those two for the 2nd spot on the depth chart will be heated. ------------------ Don't let those uppity newbies get away with acting like vets... ...all newbies are equal, remember that.
Desert Scar, if we renounce the rights to Dream to have enough under the cap to sign Webber, we won't have an exception to use. Everyone keeps forgetting that. haven: Your signature ROCKS! I agree completely! ------------------ It looks like a veteran can Be had.
True for this year Newbe, but this doesn't affect my main premise. We will have two (exemptions) next year, and could still offer the vet minimum for him for a year, or a multiyear if he prefers. Again, I like Moochie, but if Webber is a real possibility there is no way losing/not losing Moochie comes into the equation. He would have to do with what we can do, or take us on good faith. If that is not enough I would be sorry he had to go, but I'd get over it real quick if we landed Webber in the process. [This message has been edited by Desert Scar (edited June 28, 2001).]
Scar -- it seems the Rockets have gone by this philosophy twice in the last 4 years, and failed both times (Barkley and Pippen). This time, the alternative just looks a whole lot better. The two times before, we were an aging team trying to get over the hump -- we had no choice but to go for it because there was nothing to lose. Now, going after Webber runs the risk of completely ruining the chemistry of what could be a fabulous team that peaks together and is strong for many years. With more to lose, why should the Rockets risk making the same mistake again?
I think after reading Shanna's reminders that Griffin hasn't proven anything I have to become a bit more extreme in my position about Webber. Don't pull your punches if you're the Rockets, IMO. Everyone points to the Blazers squabbles... which might be relevant when there's a single All Star on the team other than 64 year old Dream. The Blazers are a poor analogy because they actually have a $20 million dollar 12th man. They're way overloaded. Try comparing Kenny Thomas to Dale Davis or Shawn Kemp. Try comparing Moochie to Rod Strickland, or Matt Bullard or Dan Langhi to Schrempf or Wells. Try comparing Rudy Tomjanovich to Mike Dunleavey. It's more plausible that Francis, Mobley, Griffin and Webber would be a better Bucks team than it is that those four somehow mysteriously encompass all of the tensions from players 1-12 on the Blazers. You get verrrry few chances to improve your team. Sometimes you get lucky in the draft... sometimes you have enough cap space to sign a player outright. Kelvin Cato + Chris Webber + Eddie Griffin is a better frontcourt than Dream + Mo Taylor + Eddie Griffin.
Achebe-You have to compare the entire front court. Cato, Collier, Webb, KT, Griff plus barge of SFs. vs. Hakeem, Cato, Collier, MoT, KT, Griff plus barge of SFs. We're now comparing Hakeem and Mo vs. Webber. The team with Hakeem and Mo would have a veteran anchor to help them through the postseason. Outside of Webber, who's never won, who would have post season experience? Bullard? ------------------ "I think alot of people find Cato's game to be very offensive." -aelliott, comparing the offensive skills of Kelvin Cato and Michael Olowokandi
So after the first 3 games when Dream goes down (todo: insert nice words about Dream) do you want to compare Cato and Mo and Griffin(rookie) to Cato and Webber and Griffin(rookie)? Besides Dream is a temporary solution (todo: insert nice words about Dream), though an emotional one. Who's the better player after Dream retires... Mo or Webber? Who's the better player if Griffin sucks? Mo or Webber? The Blazers comparisons are weak -- Rockets fans need to quit patting themselves on the back. Griffin has to play a few minutes in the NBA before we announce the Rockets' arrival. So before we cap the limits of the team, can we look at some nicer examples like the Bucks before we overpay Mo Taylor's non-rebounding ass?
