Shams - Philly offered Simmons/Thybulle + draft compensation. Did we make the right deal?

People will watch any team if they are relevant and in the mix. Teams like the Kings haven't been in about a decade. To them, making the playoffs would be a huge plus.

Yall keep bringing up that play but this is again, a regular season all-star. He doesn't play like that in the regular season, if he did, no one would even be talking about him he'd be a complete bust and irrelevant.

Teams are desperate to be relevant. That's how guys like Gordon Hayward get paid the money they do because teams are desperate to be relevant.

Kings have some good young players that are just kind of lost in there because they are bad so no one cares, but the Spurs could have traded him elsewhere. the fact is they thought Derozan was enough.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Spurs tried to trade for him because again, he's young. Teams will think they can fix him. Teams will think "Maybe if we play him at 4 we might be able to get more out of him or maybe if we..." the guy is too young for teams to just balk on completely.

We've seen complete busts have value in the league because of 'potential'...but now a 24 year old 3x all-star that clearly has mental issues (not physical ones...) has 0 value? Nah, I don't see it. We a team that traded good players at the time for the likes of Thomas Robinson and Thabeet...because of 'potential' I saw the likes of Anthony Randolph get traded for star players because of 'potential'. Hell, part of the reason you like having the BKN picks is so you can get players with 'potential' and fool some other team into taking them to better build your team.

There will be multiple teams willing to roll the dice on him and his 'potential', thinking at least his problems aren't physical, that maybe they can fix his mental and he'll work out for them and that means Philly will get a good package for him.

 

LOL facts.

 

I agree, to an extent. There is actually no way he was giving Morey Harden, unless the deal included a king's ransom.

 

man reading the first 20 pages of this thread was a real treat. lots of fun snippets.

turns out stone a little smarter than clutchfans.

 

I don't disagree that there might be some desperate team out there. Like I said, it would be a team whose hand was forced by a disgruntled star. The problem is, unlike the past offseason, Simmons's problem is now well documented. He is pretty much downgraded from tier 2 (or 3) star to tier 1 role player.

The age thing is less enticing now because people are realizing how zero improvement he has done in 5 years. You can only use "potential" to fool people for so long. I believe he is still salvageable IF he shows signs of improvement the next season. It's pretty much up to him. I've said it earlier, if the embarrassment of this year's playoffs does not motivate him to change, then nothing will.

It's a shame. If Simmons would play like Giannis does, attack the basket relentlessly, make 60% of FTs, and 30% of 3s when they dare you to shoot, he would be an MVP candidate.

 

The Kings are going to give up a bunch to pair him with Fox? The issue is that the playoffs really crystallized how limited he is. Simmons doesn't just get you to the playoffs as a focal point either. He's basically Draymond with better ball handling, an even worse shot, and without the confidence. Remember when the Warriors only had Draymond? Do you think Gobert would fetch a bounty too? I think Gobert's salary and even Simmons' is fine, but not to pay them that much and give up a bunch of legit assets.

I think he'd make sense with a fresh start somewhere like Portland.

I don't see them giving up McCollum for him. Maybe something like RoCo, Powell, filler, and a lottery protected first.

 

Idk

idk. I’m not a fan of Simmons as primary playmaker. But I think putting him in the short roll with guys like nurkic RoCo Norman may help everyone. He could also run as their small ball center whenever nurkic sits. I honestly don’t value CJ all that much though. I think a guy like ego in his prime would be better for philly to pair with Seth. You can’t put that many negative defenders on the floor with embiid running drop.

 

Y’all are smoking that crack earlier. Simmons has value, just significantly less than months ago.

All it takes one small market team or any team to convince themselves. Stench of the playoffs won’t go away but it was be lessened in the off-season.

 

Ben Simmons played himself into the worst contract in basketball! We need to trade John Wall fast!!

 

Exactly. A lot of teams that can't find star players will roll the dice on that. Kings, Charlotte, Spurs, teams that just have not had the luck of attracting star players...here is one with mental issues...not physical.

Now if he was coming off his second ACL surgery, that would have tanked his value. Mentally though, that needs to be fixed. I bet the Spurs will be right in that mix for him and if you give him to Pop, who will definitely be hard on him, he might get that out of him...because what other star players are available to the teams I've mentioned?

I think he can still be sold on potential because he's 24. I think teams are fooling themselves if they think he can shoot, like players that fix their shots in the middle of their NBA careers are exceptions. I think you put this guy at PF, let him playmake occasionally, play him a lot like Giannis and just try to make him get more aggressive.

Honestly though, these are the kind of risks some teams have to take. Rockets took a huge risk with Harden for instance because of his potential. No one knew he'd be this good but they went all in on him and yeah they traded little for him but they signed him to a massive contract right away. A team like the Spurs aren't getting stars any other way outside of the draft than to take a gamble on one that didn't work out elsewhere.

I remember when Philly only had Ben Simmons because Embiid has been in and out of the lineup and that record is 500. That's not terrible. That's not horrible. He's a 3x All star, all nba player, all defense player for a reason. He'd help a lot of teams get better

The only reason we are getting on him right now is because in the regular season he's a great player. Like if he was playing how he played in the playoffs in the regular season no one would care. He'd be Anthony Bennet, a bust that no one cares about. People are overreacting to it right now. This is a man that contributed heavily to the best record in the East. He's not going to the Kings having a minimal impact on them.

He's mentally not in the right state of mind and had a horrible series. That's what happened. I don't think anyone believes he's going to go out there next season and play the entire season like it's game 7 of the ECSF

 

Here's what Morey should do this summer:

1. Trade Ben Simmons to Chicago for Zach Lavine and Thaddeus Young
2. Let all of their free agents walk (especially Danny Green)
3. Sign Kyle Lowry to a 2/$35-40 million deal.

Embiid
Young
Harris
Lavine
Lowry

Then you still have Thybulle and Maxey to anchor your bench.

 

I don't know if Philly fans can give Simmons another chance.... but I'd be looking to trade Tobias Harris + rookie guard (lesser of Maxey or Shake) + late FRP for CJ McCollum. CJ, Simmons, Embiid is just a better fit.

However, from Portland's POV.... I don't know if they'd go for it.

 

LET ME SEE......we trade Walls to Philly for Ben Simmons and George Hill


what do you think???

Porter
Cunningham
Simmons
Wood
Turner(trade 1 FRP from 2021 and 1 FRP from 2022, House and Martin Jr.)

Great defense and we have Augstin and Gordon with nice offense power.

 

Might be touching the third rail here, but would it be worth trading John Wall for Ben Simmons and a FRP or young player (Korkmaz, Shake Milton, Tyrese Maxies)? Seems like a good buy low opportunity.

 

Ben Simmons to the Rockets has most likely passed....

He's not the type of "buy low" max player that fits with our bottoming out timeline, especially if don't keep our top 4 pick. If we get Cunningham then I may start considering it. Simmons/Cunningham is intriguing. However, I don't see Philly/Morey doing a Simmons/Wall trade unless Wall is willing to give up his player option and resign on a team friendly-ish contract.

 

Simmons' value has hit bedrock but that bedrock is still higher than Wall plus picks.

 

We dodged a bullet. Simmons' lack of improvement since his rookie year was already a concern for me prior to this season. Now he won't take shots even inside the paint and looks shot mentally. His response to this series was awful too. "I am who I am." Talent is nothing without the passion to improve and I have no doubt that he lacks that motivation.

 

Moves like this show Raf Stone is a keeper as a GM. Most would be shortsighted enough to trade for Simmons.