top 10 player of all time… how He will be 34 next year and hasn’t even cracked 20k points as a mostly scoring guard you curry stans are delusional
So that's your argument? "Advanced stats don't matter"? Or that my opinion doesn't matter since I'm not a voter? Absolutely pathetic. Follow this ridiculous logic, that would mean you think Harden has only deserved 1 MVP in his career. Is that what you think? If not, you're an ignorant hypocrite. Also, Draymond Green has a solid defensive RAPTOR rating. So your argument has all sorts of holes. Sorry, but that's garbage logic. Draymond Green being on the all-NBA defensive team doesn't change the fact that GSW has a bad supporting cast.
Advanced stats don't matter to the degree that you think they do. Clearly those that vote don't value that metric that highly. Your opinion doesn't change the relevance of that metric. Yes, you continuing to call a supporting cast garbage when players (multiple) are receiving all league recognition is pathetic. The supporting cast had an all D player that avg more assists than CP3, and a 2-way player in Wiggins (see his offensive numbers and he received all D consideration). The supporting cast supported Curry with a top defense. Yes, your logic is beyond ridiculous for continuing to claim Curry had no support. Please take your own advice and stop being a ignorant hypocrite. Harden received MP consideration in the years he lost, same as Wiggins this year. It's ridiculous logic to not admit someone was contributing defensively when they are receiving all D consideration. It's not complex. Keep up. Sure it does. An All NBA defender that can also get dimes like a PG and a scorer giving you 19 a night on 48/38% shooting, while also being a strong defender (hence all D consideration) is enough support to not miss the playoffs, for a 2 time MVP. As its been noted multiple times, if Curry is at the level you think he is he doesn't need all-star help everywhere to simply make the playoffs. A league best defender, a capable 2nd scorer and role players (that give you a top defense) should be enough to not go lotto. You can keep sounding dumb as much as you like by continuing to scream that this is not enough support. It changes nothing.
I think Draymond Green was worthy of his all-nba defense award. However, one good defensive teammate doesn't elevate a bad supporting cast to an average supporting cast. And Green's defensive RAPTOR rating was solid. You're trying to take his defensive impact and apply it to his overall impact as a player. Again, Wiggins had a negative RAPTOR rating. Spin all you want, but when he was on the court, he had a negative impact. The fact that you keep pointing to Wiggins as a positive when he's a negative is a testament to how bad the supporting cast is. Answer the question. Do you think that Harden has only deserved 1 MVP in his career? Don't deflect. Give a straight answer. Tough, isn't it? You know that if you give your honest opinion, your hypocrisy will be on full display. An all-NBA defender who struggles putting the ball in the basket and a scorer who has a negative impact when on the floor. If you think that's enough of a supporting cast for Curry, you must have a higher opinion of Curry than I do. There's a big difference between all-star players and players who don't have negative impacts while on the court.
If he only had one good defensive teammate then the team wouldn’t have had a top defense. He had multiple teammates that got all league consideration for defense. This is fact. Again, Wiggins received all league consideration for defense. This is not spin. This is fact. I think Harden received MVP consideration in all the years he still lost MVP. I would sound like an idiot arguing he wasn’t MVP worthy when he got love for it, just like you sound idiotic arguing Wiggins didn’t make a defensive impact when he’s getting all league consideration. Yes, reading your nonsense on this topic is tough. Curry had an all league defender and a two way player that gave him 19 a night and defense. His other teammates gave him support to have a top defense, despite having a clear defensive liability on the floor in Curry. To argue he didn’t have enough support to simply make the playoffs is beyond idiotic.
And what was Wiggins' ranking for that all-league defense consideration? A bunch of defensive players who are inefficient/incompetent scorers is a poor supporting cast. Not sure why you're arguing something that's common sense. Again, Wiggins had a negative RAPTOR score. That means that he had a negative impact on the court. You keep focusing on his defense. Why don't you look at the rest of his game as well? Can you quote me where I said Wiggins didn't make a defensive impact? As far as I recall, I've been talking about his overall RAPTOR score which says he had a negative impact while on the court. So you refuse to answer whether or not Harden deserves only 1 MVP for his career. Your refusal to answer a simple question proves that you're full of crap and that I've argued you into submission.
The Warriors were a perfect recipe. Kerr + Dray + Durant + Steph + Klay + Bogut/Zaza/ScottFoster/Tony Brothers Take any one of those aside from KD and put it on the Hornets and see where you go. Nowhere.
Good enough to receive all league consideration. False. Iverson made the Finals on a team like this. And Wiggins want an inefficient/incompetent scorer. I did. He avg 19 on good %’s and got all league consideration for defense. This is fact. You have spin. The question isn’t relevant. Harden received all league consideration even when he lost. No, it just shows you are asking an irrelevant question and either can’t grasp that, or keep trying to deflect. Curry had a top team defense, a great coach, an all league defender and a guy giving him 19 a night and good D. That’s more than enough to simply make the playoffs. A mega star should JR expected to drag garbage to the playoffs either way, which Curry didn’t have.
Julius Randle finished 8th in MVP voting. Derrick Rose received a single MVP vote. Based on your moronic logic, the Knicks had 2 MVP caliber players this season. Do you now understand how stupid you sound? Different era, different rules. That era favored defensive players. This one significantly favors offensive players. Unsurprising you didn't realize that. Andrew Wiggins had a negative RAPTOR rating and a PER of 15. By all means, continue to use him to defend GSW supporting cast. Is this your argument? That advanced stats are meaningless? Good luck with that. It's absolutely relevant and you keep deflecting because as soon as you answer it, you know I'll crush your argument. It's such a simple question yet you're afraid to answer it. Again, thus far, has Harden's career deserved only 1 MVP?
My logic says the Knicks had two players that received MVP consideration this season, so I would sound idiotic…like you…if I were trying to convince others that they were garbage when they are receiving consideration for league wide honors. Yes, I understand how stupid and ignorant you sound. This is not complex. Maybe for you…. Even in this era, a capable 2nd scorer, elite defender, top passer and league high D is enough support to simply make the playoffs. Can you provide support showing that NBA coaches and GM’s hold the RAPTOR rating, created by FiveThirtyEight, in high regard? If it’s an important metric this should be easy for you to produce, showing the majority of the basketball community thinks it’s relevant. Please link your support. It’s not relevant. Harden still received MVP consideration those seasons. Read and comprehend. You continuing to repeat the same nonsense because your logic stinks changes nothing. You sound dumb saying players suck when they are receiving consideration for league awards. If you can’t grasp that, that’s on you.
The idiocy is a direct extrapolation of your logic. I get that you desperately want to avoid giving a straight answer, but everyone can see that you're full of crap. It's really not. This is an offense-oriented era. Look at the scorers on other fringe playoff teams. The GSW scorers were clearly lacking. Is it your contention that RAPTOR is a useless rating? And what about PER? When multiple advanced stats tell the same story, maybe you should listen. It's absolutely relevant b/c it disproves your logic. If you think it's irrelevant, then there's no downside to answering a simple, straight question, right? So why do you keep avoiding it? It's almost as if you know that once you answer the question, you've lost the argument.
Can steph carry his own team? Yes? No? Who cares! The real question is can Harden win a title even being carried by Durant. Nah, cant carry KD's jock to title - as the beta in OKC. Nah still cant carry KD's jock as a NET - failed again. Maybe Harden needs to carry Lebrons jock to the title, that might work.
The logic is beyond basic. I’m not sure why you can’t grasp it. You can’t say dudes suck when they are out here getting consideration for all league awards. Its not complex. You sound dumb making that argument. Are you arguing defense doesn’t matter in modern basketball? And the scorers weren’t lacking. He had a reliable 2nd option. How many scorers does a star need to make the playoffs? Does this mean you do or don’t have support showing league coaches and GMs care about this metric? Yes or no? I’m not avoiding it. I’ve responded to it multiple times. It’s not relevant. Again, you can’t say dudes suck when they are out here getting consideration for all league awards. Its not complex. You sound dumb making that argument. Whether Harden or the Knicks players won MVP is not relevant. They received consideration for the award. You don’t get consideration for league wide awards if you are garbage. Even if you were only getting recognized for defense, then that shows you are viewed as being impactful, ie not sucking. Curry did not have garbage teammates. Not complex. Your question is irrelevant spin. Curry had one of the best defenders in all of basketball (who also got more apg than elite PG's), a 19 point scorer who also received league award consideration for defense (ie a 2 way player) and players that overcame his defensive weaknesses to be one of the top defensive teams in basketball. That's more than enough support to not miss the playoffs. Not complex.
And you sound like an idiot for putting any weight on Andrew Wiggins' single 2nd team defensive vote. Wiggins isn't a scrub, but if you're pointing at him as one of the best players in a supporting cast, then that supporting cast is pretty bad. Defense matters. Offense matters much more. Look how easily the DPOY was neutralized. Reliable 2nd option? Andrew Wiggins? The guy who had a -1.1 offensive RAPTOR rating? How many scorers does a star need to make the playoffs? Maybe more than 1? No, I dont know if coaches or GM's use it. And why does that matter? It's a widely used metric. If you have problems with it, point to the flaw in the methodology. You've consistently refused to answer. It's a simple yes or no question. How about a yes or no answer? Do you think that Harden's career has deserved only 1 MVP? Yes or no? Not when the actual playoff teams have significantly better supporting casts. And this is the huge flaw in your argument. You're looking at Curry's supporting cast in a vacuum. You need to look at it in comparison to other supporting casts. Not complex.
Correct, he isn't, just like numerous folks have been saying all along. Wiggins provided 19 ppg on good %'s. That's a quality 2nd option, who is also a good defensive player. Glad you finally admit that defense matters. It's a widely used metric by who? Specifically by who affiliated with NBA basketball? I show you a player receiving recognition for all league honors. Clearly the NBA cares about who they give all league honors to. I'm sure even you aren't dumb enough to dispute that (hey, ya never know though). You keep touting this metric in response. Show it's relevance as far as folks in the NBA go. The question is not relevant and that has been explained why multiple times. If you can't grasp why that's your problem. They don't, and even if they did, that shouldn't matter in this sport...where ONE PLAYER is supposed to be able to make all the difference in the world. This is why you see teams tank and gut their whole rosters to acquire ONE PLAYER. But your guy Curry is an elite scorer and that's all. He isn't great at more than one thing like other studs that have shown they can drag garbage to the playoffs. You think he is a top 15 guy. A player of that caliber doesn't need a lot around them to simply make the playoffs. A lesser player does. Lesser does not = bad. Curry is great. He's not as great as you think he is, which is why he needs more help. Hence this thread. Folks were curious if he could do what other players held in that regard have done. So far the answer is a clear no. Facts. Please stop saying Curry was playing with garbage. You sound idiotic typing that. He had one guy make the All D team and avg like 8 dimes a night, another guy give him 19 and play good enough D to get all league consideration, and a team that gave a top defense despite him sucking donkey balls on that end. That's more than enough help to simply make the playoffs. He failed. You are failing more in your attempts to excuse his failure. My last response on it as you will keep typing the same nonsense over and over again. Everyone else in the thread can read and comprehend just fine.
You're aware that Derrick Rose got an MVP vote, right? If there are flaws in the metric, why don't you disclose them? Because your argument of "GM's don't use them therefore they aren't valid" is spurious at best. In other words, you know that as soon as you answer, you've lost. Sounds like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of basketball. It's a team game. Olajuwon missed the playoffs before. So did Kobe. So what does that say about them? Why don't you list the western conference playoff teams with an inferior supporting cast than the Warriors? I doubt you will since you know that I'll be able to disprove all of them.
saw this on currygm.. oops i mean realgm.com try not to laugh lol https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2102303
