Shams - Philly offered Simmons/Thybulle + draft compensation. Did we make the right deal?

People on this board have been denying his cheapness since hes been here. It's flat out terrible.They're still trying to laughably defend him now.

Doc definitely found a role for him and that's follow Trae around. But that's more of being an above average role player instead of a 2nd star behind embiid. but I couldn't careless about ben simmons. I never wanted him anyway. that changes nothing when it comes to Tilman

 

Who?! They should be tarred and feathered.

As far as Simmons, Doc pulled a Rudy T with Simmons and benched him during crunch time like he did with Kenny and Scottie Brooks.

 

the search button is your friend. This isn't breaking news. It's been a topic of discussion since 2018 when all of his transactions have been money saving as the mo and the infamous LTS. The rockets are back to back to back LTS champs for a reason. more and more folks have accepted how bad it is since but there's still a number of tilman supporters that try to pop out

Why would anyone have him on the floor. Philly was down 3. You want atl to definitely foul him and he's not a threat from the outside like at all. There isn't a legitimate case to have him on the floor.

 

Doc has been coppin pleas for Ben Simmons and excusing away his deficiencies all season…I get that it’s typical coach speak and “what would u expect him to say?” etc, but it’s still annoying because he’s not fooling anyone

 

It is somethign amazing that someone who has performed and played at an elite level with the pressure of international, collegiate, and nba coaching still gets nervous for shooting 3s and free throws, they often hit em in practice but that hasn't translated yet.

Its a glaring flaw, I think all too often overshadowing that he is almost elite at every single thing(elite athlete, on the break, passer, great rebounder, elite defense) But to unlock that next level, hes gotta do it. Credit to Giannis who also felt hopeless and still isn't good shooter but continues to improve and keep shooting playing the long game that his time and these reps will pay off

 

unfortunately for Simmons, his complete lack of shooting is 1 of the biggest and most glaring flaws 1 could have

at least with Brick Freak, he’s super aggressive, so even with his lack of shooting and bricks from the free throw line, he still gets u 28-30 points on the regular…Simmons meanwhile averages a meager 15 points in 35 mpg for his playoff career

 

Yea but teh context of how that team is built matters. Like shaq/kobe, the team is built for the hof big and this is embiids team, simmons is the 2nd star. They don't compliment each other well but its enough talent where you just try to make it work. I do believe that if Simmons had an mda or a coach who gives him the leash as a pg and a 4 spread offense he can easily topple 18-11-7/8 with 2 steals and a block and be a problem to defend. the spacing and system is not build for him to do that, but that has a big impact on output and opportunities. So I agree, its a glaring flaw that is more important now than ever but even with it his bare minimum is a draymond green and hes more of anthelte, way better finisher, way better handles

 

building a team around Ben Simmons is too difficult…he needs shooting at every other position, and 2 of those shooters also need to be high level scorers, and some of those shooters also need to be adequate 3&D

he needs to be your 3rd best scorer at best, and have optimal spacing at all times

it’s not worth it trying to spend time building around someone that flawed

 

I think its similar with a lot of nucleus stars, 3/d players really will do the job and thats why they are getting the big bucks tehse days. They compliment and space everything.

I think its not as cut and dry as your 3rd best summer because hes going to make other guys who have good off ball movement let alone can build off his draw and kick ability to get better shots. HE can also run the pick and roll really well adn is a problem as a a finsiher. You can also run him on the high post and have an offense around him. Different coaches can use him differently but he has versatility.

Why is it worth whle bc what he does at an elite level, very few players can match. A 6'10 elite athlete who moves and handles and passes like a guard at an elite level with great court awareness. He can also hold down your defense from 1-5, create fast breaks and do that at an elite level. Not many people in the league can do that, thats why hes worth more than draymond and a lot of others but of course you have to deal with teh shooting so you surround him differently. He may have a westbrook situation where if you give him spacing he can be much better and he is much more conscious and not as reckless as westbrook to throw up bad shots obviously to the point where its a fault. hes also a floor raiser and I believ with the coachign and team build, we haven't seen the best of simmons. OTher element hes worked on that doesn't get any coverage is his post game. Hes worked on his foot work finishing and awareness frm the coast which allows more flexiblity and line ups. All in all, I can see his glaring hole of shooting really hurting with the wrong team btu I also see teh potential of him on teh right team, coach, useage to be very special. Not sure it will be in philly.

 

Simmons is FOOLS GOLD. Marjority of this board pouted when Stone didn’t trade our franchise player for Ben Simmons smh. That was the absolute BEST move we didn’t make

 

Well the Rockets got 4 first, plus three swaps, plus an improved Miami pick, plus whatever Avery and KO can net you this offseason, plus KPJ.

And it doesn't matter how many games KPJ did or didn't play before the Rockets got him. At worst, the Rockets trade of Allen/Prince to Cavs led to the final blow-up, which led to the trade, but much more likely, it was also part of the deal. Why? Because why of all teams would he randomly be traded to the Rockets? He was a 20 year old rookie that averaged 10,3,2 in limited minutes his rookie year. And I'm not saying he didn't have personal issues or a shouting locker room incident, but it's odd how "normal" a player he seemed to be with the Rockets. Wasn't that hard for the Rockets to turn him around or something...

Maybe he just didn't want to play in Cleveland, but even then, a protected 2nd round pick?

 

Teams that have won championships recently:

Lebron + AD
Kawhi + Leonard + Siakim (who won over a very injured team)
Steph + KD + Klay+ Dray
Lebron + Kyrie + Love
Duncan + Parker + Ginobili + Kawhi
Lebron + Wade + Bosh
Kobe + Gasol
KG + Pierce + Allen + Rondo
Dirk + super solid vet role players

If Ben Simmons name is to be up there in the future, it will be as second piece at best, if not a 3rd piece OFFENSIVELY.

Which is fine... no shame in that, that's what he is right now. And that might still work for the 76ers... if Embiid can stay healthy. But even then they'd have to get through potentially, KD+Harden+Irving or Booker+CP3+Ayton or Kawhi+PG or Mitchell+Gobert

The Rockets don't have an Embiid, healthy or otherwise. Or KD, Harden, Booker, CP3, Kawhi, Mitchell...

So the question becomes, is there a path that allows you to get such a player, once you already have Simmons, given your current draft pick situation.

Virtually impossible to see such a path... so the discussion seems dumb to me...

 

So the rockets secretly planned to have his locker changed and then throw food at Kobe Altman? We had him in the dleague and for any player to be traded for peanuts and end up in the dleague is humbling. I love that it happened bc we wildly ebenefited but pretending it was some handshake planned deal when they oculdve inclded in the trade if they wanted to bc he is so cheap, at best it created a relationship between cavs and rockets to give the nod to get this done. so that is still a strech

Once again, read between the headlines. you really think our 21 swap is even comparable, or even 23?
A big get is seeing what we do with Avery and KO. We went for almost all expriring picks, so if we resign K O or use him to get an asset, then yes we're doing more than the typical tilman cost cut dance. and tahat'd be great.

but half of those first picks are late late as in we could've in the dark and picked any of the tleagues playoff team's picks and most likely done better. The other half is pure hope. Its like the oladipo over levert situation. ITs not so much being pro levert, its here is an asset where you have flexiblity. you don't have your backs against the wall choosing an expiring, and you can make them move now or the summer. I don't midn cost cutting now or not going in the tax, but as mentioend ATL, thunder all these teams doing good rebuilds accumulated assets and a way to do that is take on bad contracts since we're not spending in FA. So a lot has to be seen there, we got some glimmer of hope, but thats it, we were sold a lot of hope. those picks very well could not pan out

 

Not having salary is flexibility.

lol, how about we wait and see before we proclaim their rebuild good.

Which is kind of the point to it all. We have to wait and see a bit here.

If the Rockets end up with Cade in a few months, there's no question

 

Promises, promises.

 

I'd say thunder are currently in a better place then us, they have our picks, they have clipperes picks which may be akin to the nets.

that said, I agree. if we get cade, everyone is going to turn the page into the new rockets. Lets hope it happens, 7 days.

 

Simmons was the best player available for the Harden trade. But why did so many of us not want him? Because he's too good to ask for a ludicrous side package. But he is not good enough to be your franchise player you want to build around. There was no tier 1 or even tier 2 star on the table. What do you do? You go for potentials and promises. At least you get a chance to be lucky. With Simmons, you get what you see and what you see is just not good enough.

I know you are a Simmons fan and think he is some kind of superstar. Well, you are wrong. This is his fourth season and he is still the same player as in his rookie year. Are you content to build a team around this version of Simmons? Or how long do you want to wait for him to go to another level?

 

Thank God Stone isn't as dumb as some of you. Literally unplayable down the stretch.

 

Imagine how horrible our future would be with Simmons.

 

Simmons is abysmal. Just pathetic all around.