Is Tilman better than Cuban? (Both are NBA owners)

I don't blame Les for taking the money, any one of us would have done the same.

DD

 

My name is not Methusala...

DD

 

It appears you misread my post. It doesn't matter why Alexander sold the team. What matters is who he sold the team to and why. The NBA screwed the Rockets by allowing the sale to go forward becasue they had to have known that he didn't have the money to run the organization properly.

 

Are you speaking in code or soemthing? None of your repsonses make any sense. Maybe at 77,000 it'll start to click for you.

 

this thread belongs in the D&D obviously

 

Oh snap!!

 

Tilman's doing what many of us would do, if he had the chance to etch in there and get a team we'd do it and the nstruggling to really keep upto par with the upkeep and maintenance with the ret of the league. At a personal level, I get it . As a houstonian we all suffer for the sake of an ego he doesn't mind bringing down our reputation, our history, our experience so he can make it work for him personally. At least les sold and got the hell out of there. I wish tilman would do this. yet you will strictly only critisize one not the other

 

We all know exactly the terms of how he got it : Remember this is from a texas monthly article agreed to and participated by tilmanhttps://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/tilman-fertitta-two-billion-dollar-buyer/

https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/tilman-fertitta-two-billion-dollar-buyer/

"
A contract was soon signed, but Fertitta still needed to raise $2.2 billion—no easy feat, even for one of the world’s thousand richest people. Alexander agreed to finance $275 million of the deal. Fertitta then borrowed $250 million against the value of the Rockets, the maximum allowed by the NBA, and kicked in $300 million of his own money, but that still left him $1.375 billion short.

Rather than selling equity in the company, which would have meant giving up full ownership, Fertitta decided to make up that difference by issuing corporate bonds and bank debt. It’s a strategy he’s used time and again since taking Landry’s and the Golden Nugget private, in 2010. “He has a very, very good reputation and track record in the bond market,” said Rich Handler, the CEO of Jefferies, which served as the lead underwriter of the bond sales. “We’ve done a lot of deals with him, and the lenders have made a lot of money.”"




"Amazingly enough, Fertitta’s $2.2 billion wasn’t the highest offer the team received; at least two rivals offered more money, Brown said. In the end, though, Fertitta’s hometown connections, relentlessness, and ability to close the deal quickly proved decisive. (Alexander had insisted that the sale be finalized before the start of the new basketball season, in October, so that it wouldn’t be a distraction for the players.)"​

Like I said, I had no issue and preferered a local owner, but if you're going to get in the kitchen and cant handle the heat, leave. He has made all of us rockets fans suffer, you "he can't afford it" then why would you explain the following?

"And that was the one thing that Morey never really had. According to the cap numbers at Spotrac, which go back to the 2010-11 season, the Rockets barely went over the luxury tax (just $3.65 million over) in their one season (2015-16) as a taxpayer. The Warriors spent $49.63 million in penalties over the last five seasons, while even the small-market Thunder spent $33.73 million. There was no excuse for Houston to not open up the checkbook. This is a franchise located in the fourth-biggest metro area in the U.S. that has had a superstar in the prime of his career.

This refusal to spend money became farcical once Alexander sold the team to Tilman Fertitta in 2017. Fertitta spent so much money ($2.2 billion) to purchase the Rockets that he may not have had the liquidity to go into the red to build a title contender. Houston was a laughingstock around the league for the amount of juggling it had to do to stay under the tax. The best example came at the trade deadline last season, when Morey used a future first-round pick to shed the salaries of Brandon Knight and Marquese Chriss. There was no basketball reason for the move. It was just done to cut costs. It’s not that Knight and Chriss would have helped the Rockets. But there were certainly a lot of better things that Morey could have used that pick for.

Houston’s limited financial flexibility became an even bigger issue last season after the trade for Westbrook. With the team’s two best players costing a combined $76.7 million, it became almost impossible for Morey to fill out the roster while staying under the luxury tax. Morey and head coach Mike D’Antoni had to conjure up production from players other teams didn’t want. Jeff Green went from being cut by the Jazz to being a crucial piece of the Rockets’ small-ball attack in the playoffs. It was the same story with Austin Rivers, who had been on three teams in five seasons before landing in Houston, and Ben McLemore, who had one foot out of the NBA before the Rockets turned him into a 3-point sniper. All were more valuable in Houston than anywhere else in the league because Morey identified what they could do well and put them in roles that didn’t ask them to do much else.
Houston also spent that season in a bizarre staring contest with Danuel House Jr. House is the kind of diamond in the rough that Morey routinely uncovered in Houston, an undrafted free agent on a two-way contract who would become a starting-caliber wing. The problem was that players on those deals can spend only 45 days with the NBA team during the season before their contracts have to be converted. Money in Houston was so tight that Morey had to send House back to the G League when he wouldn’t sign a below-market long-term deal. He replaced House with two players he signed off the street (Gerald Green and Kenneth Faried) before bringing him back right before the playoffs. It’s not like House was asking for the world. He signed a three-year, $11 million contract in the offseason. But even that was more than Morey could offer at the time.​

This is like any part of the team, pg or whatver coming and not doing their role. I thought he would be a local legend, come in for the window, spend now and win and then make your dough later with your legacy certified. But no, not only did 90 percent of our moves become cost cutting mandates, the guy openly lied about all of it contradicting himself how big he is on his numbers and knowing his companies then also ​

“Last year (getting under the luxury tax) was a fluke,” Fertitta said. “We were going to be in the (tax). It was an accident. I’m still trying to figure out how we got under. I was positive we were going to be in it by $11 million. But if I’m in the luxury tax, I expect us to win.
​

He lies to the fans, blames everyone he cans...all the markers of a used car dealership, yet can't tinman is doing mental gymnastics to be a contrarian for the sake of a guy who has hurt the rockets reputation as much as anyone in our history. You think we're a destination now? Here is rich Paul's advice to Anthony davis, considering all the above:

I educated [Davis] on why I thought the team wouldn't be . . . ' He paused. 'All athletes are competitive and confident, until reality sets in. And I educated him on things.'"​

Paul laid out what superstars need to see from teams to give a long-term commitment.

"You either need your team in place, or you need flexibility, assets, money, and the ability to make decisions. And, more important, the willingness to pay the [luxury] tax ... This ain't 'Moneyball.'"

Brings the point back to are you a Tilman Only fan? or a Houston Rockets fans? If so how do you defend and blindly sit there while he ruined the rockets, lied to the fanbase, and hurt our reputation while only calling out Les? No one argues with you that les sucks, so its just speaking to the choir but then you get absolutely silent or deflective when it becomes about Tilman(cue deflection response)

Cmon man, be a Hakeem Rudy Carrol Dawson 99er, don't be a Scottie Pippen 99er

 

This is Like you buying a Private plane, a dream by and you maybe made some fiancial maneuvers to make it happen as it was a strech, but how many times do you get a g7 available at this deal? Then you get it, you start having to remove or slel out some of the nice fixtures, you have to hire cheap mechanics pilots, you get a distant rural hanger to house it in because its cheaper and then have to sell shares of it and put it up for charter most of the time anyways. Yea you own your dream plane, but you aren't handling it right.

Thats all good and well in the private world, I've seen it happen. But now the rockets which you, I alland many here feel emotional allegiance and attachments too. Its not a traditional market force is it? We're not just going to ship up to the Spurs bc rockets arent giving us a good product, sports is different htat way. Let alone that they are profiting off publicly funded Toyota Center, but this is the cities team, history. Its bigger than Les, bigger than Tilman. So doing it at this level, he deserves the crap he gets...and oyu know what, the guy isn't even humble about it. If we was like the nuggets owner who said we made mistakes, i had to learn from it in the beggining, that showed humility and class and honesty. Tilman does nothign but continue to lie to anyone whose an idiot or a casual that he went 'all in', blames others, lies to the fanbase...does not help himself, but can you expect more from a guy who titled his book Shut up and Listen about learning his ways of success one of which is hope that banks die out in teh crash like it did when he owed them millions and just recieve millions of grants?

 

Ugh, this whole article is a downer even though it's well known throughout the NBA of the cheapness of our ownership. I wonder who the other two (higher) bidders were?

 

Houston has a lot of quiet billionaires, we have real estate tycoons, we have oil and gas guys, heck look around courtside around tilman the guy who build transco tower, the family of the guy who helped develop galleria, several oil gas guys...and many of them are not Rich on Paper like tilman style living on debt, they have cash. but not everyone is goign to want to be the face. Tilman is a guy as you saw above volunteers maybe for more media then most owners outside of Cuban, and cuban is cash rich. The reality shows the intervies they dont just surprise them you call their pr guy you seek it out and so on an so forth. I know one of the deals was backed by china money, but Les chose the local guy who was already a minority owner and has been around houston for a while...I think for us that should've been a good sign, just turned out we got Landry-ed. And Les, the financier that he is, has tillman paying him interest to do it.

I think both Les wins, Tilman wins bc he gets his prize showcase legacy piece, Houston fans and people lose. Sad how it worked out while they privately profit of public funds with toyota center...

 

This is so misleading. When Warriors won 2014-2015 season, their salary were actually lower than Rockets. In following seasons, they needed to maintain their champion team. Rockets never went to finals during those years, why would anyone spend money for nothing?

 

Never went to the finals?
We were one game for the finals. The point is the Championship "window". The margins of an nba playoff game are very, very small. Depth matters, cohesion, so on and so forth.

You know who chris paul said was the reason rockets couldn't run it back in 2019:

Former Houston Rockets guard Chris Paul was on the Knuckleheads podcast with Darius Miles and Quentin Richardson and explained the impact of the Rockets losing Ariza.

“People don’t realize, that’s the biggest thing that we missed. That was tough when we lost [Ariza] because he sorta was like the glue. He was that glue for our team.”


Go back to Jordan, would his legacy be the same if Paxon or Kerr rimmed out their shots? What about Horry for shaq/kobe, mario elie for us?
All of these are non headliner veteran players who weren't really worth a big contract, but come down to the thin margins of plyoffs, you take a shot, thats all you can do.

There is no guarantee of the finals appearance...that is still the case today as we see Phx finally spending big, Utah spending big as small markets, Lakers/clippers/Denver all going big...none of them are guaranteed finals. Nets/sixers/bucks all spending big money, none of them are guaranteed finals. In the nba you maximize all your options, and then take a swing.

So yea, Marc Gasol was not worth the 50 million commitment at 35 years old, but raptors swung, one shot bounced in the right way, the rest is history. Cavs were prepetual losers to the infallible warriors, but htey over paid JR, Klove, Tristan thompson...gave themselves another opportunity and history was made. In this league you just have to take a swing when you have that rare 'window' Even now with the warriors, they weren't sniffing a title last year they still went over a crazy tax for kelly oubre, why? culture, branding, and thinking the long game is what made warriors a laughing stock to now a world wide brand and respecting they havea superstar with a small window left.

What did rockets do during our "window" when we had the requisite high level hall of famer and another star...cut cost. You saw the examples above.
Now imagine you're james harden, the year before you guys are one game from the finals with your star Chris Paul out. You're running it back, you are playing heavy minutes in a time where load management is accepted, you play heavy useage and games at a historic rate. You come back in your locker room and you Daniel house, one of the ariza replacements, was cut with no replacement despite being in MDA's short, short rotation. A month later, James Ennis, another ariza replacement and also in the rotation, traded for a top 55 protected 2nd rounder, no players back. You read the newspaper, tilman is front page saying 'we're going in, getting under teh tax was a fluke, rockets need a killer mentality i will instill' You may just realize hes a snake oils salesman and a shamelessone.