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MSNBC: Intel Officer Shown In Latest POW Torture Photo

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MacBeth, May 14, 2004.

  1. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    EXCLUSIVE
    NBC News and news services

    Updated: 8:47 p.m. ET May 13, 2004WASHINGTON - Abusive treatment under the supervision of military intelligence officers may have been intentionally used as part of the interrogation of Iraqi captives at the Abu Ghraib prison, according to a previously unpublished photograph of U.S. soldiers and other personnel obtained by NBC News.


    The photograph was taken during the interrogation of several Iraqi prisoners who are depicted naked in a heap on the floor, according to a military police officer who faces a court-martial in connection with alleged abuses at the notorious facility on the outskirts of Baghdad.

    The officer, Spc. Charles A. Graner Jr., 35, of Greene County, Pa., is leaning against the wall in the photograph, which was provided by his attorney, Guy Womack.

    Graner identified four other soldiers in the photograph, labeled Nos. 4, 5, 7 and 8 in the copy provided to NBC News, as military intelligence officers, who he said were in charge of interrogations at the prison. A civilian translator is labeled No. 2, and Graner is No. 1.

    What role for military intelligence?

    The involvement of military intelligence officers in encouraging abuse of detainees has emerged as a central question of the burgeoning scandal at Abu Ghraib, which has led to criminal charges against Graner and six other MPs and widespread calls for the resignation of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

    Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., said last week that Graner had his photo taken with prisoners as proof that military intelligence officers forced him to take part in the abusive behavior.


    • U.S. intelligence linked to abuse

    May 13: At least four of the people in the photograph provided by Spc. Charles A. Graner Jr.’s attorney were identified as U.S. military intelligence officers. NBC’s Jim Miklaszewski reports.
    Nightly News




    Military police are responsible for guarding prisoners but are not supposed to be involved in interrogations. But in a report obtained last week by NBC News, Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba, who led the Army’s investigation of the abuses at Abu Ghraib, quoted the testimony of a sergeant at Abu Ghraib who said military intelligence officers lobbied guards to abuse the detainees to “loosen them up” for interrogation.

    “Make sure he has a bad night,” the sergeant said he was told in regard to one inmate. “Make sure he gets the treatment.”

    Other unit members said inmates of high interest to military intelligence officers were segregated into a separate cellblock, where guards were expected to “break them down,” Taguba wrote.

    Taguba blamed, in part, a confused chain of command after Nov. 19, when the 205th Military Intelligence Brigade was given responsibility for Abu Ghraib prison and authority over the 800th Military Police Brigade. He reiterated that guards should play no role in the interrogation of prisoners.

    Fact File Probing the military

    At least seven investigations have been launched into allegations of abuse by U.S. personnel at military prisons. Click below for details:
    • Guantanamo Naval Base
    • Bagram, Afghanistan
    • Abu Ghraib, Iraq: Criminal investigation
    • Abu Ghraib, Iraq: Taguba report
    • Worldwide
    • Army reserve: Training
    • Abu Ghraib, Iraq: Military intelligence



    Guantanamo Naval Base
    Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld asks Navy inspector general in May to investigate the prisons at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba and at the Charleston, S.C., Naval Station Brig, where war-on-terror detainees are being held.
    Follow-up: Ongoing


    Bagram, Afghanistan
    Investigation into the deaths of two inmates in December 2002, at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan after complaints by human rights groups. Military coroners rule the deaths homicide.
    Follow-up: Ongoing, although the military says that procedures have been modified at the Afghan facility.


    Abu Ghraib, Iraq: Criminal investigation
    Criminal investigation into the treatment of Iraqi inmates at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad after complaints made by a soldier in January 2004.
    Follow-up: Six Army soldiers from the 800th Military Police Brigade charged in March with various offenses including dereliction of duty, cruelty and maltreatment, assault and indecent acts.


    Abu Ghraib, Iraq: Taguba report
    Gen. Ricardo Sanchez orders an investigation in January into abuses at Abu Ghraib to be conducted by Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba.
    Follow-up: In a lengthy report, Taguba concludes in March that "several U.S. Army soldiers have committed egregious acts and grave breaches of international law." Six noncommissioned and commissioned officers receive letters of reprimand.


    Worldwide
    Army’s inspector general office in February launches an investigation of "detention operations around the world" to ensure humane, normal policies are followed.
    Follow-up: Ongoing


    Army reserve: Training
    Lt. Gen. James R. Helmly, chief of the Army Reserve, orders an investigation in May into the state of training of Army Reserve units. The 800th is an Army Reserve unit based at Fort Totten, N.Y.
    Follow-up: Ongoing


    Abu Ghraib, Iraq: Military intelligence
    Army Maj. Gen. George Fay, the service's deputy chief of staff for intelligence, launches an investigation in May into the possible involvement of military intelligence personnel in the abuse at Abu Ghraib prison.
    Follow-up: Ongoing




    Sources: Department of Defense, Associated Press



    Geneva Conventions debated
    The photograph could also be important in determining whether interrogation techniques used at the prison were improper in themselves.

    Questions have also been raised about the Defense Department’s list of approved rules for interrogations and whether they violate the Geneva Conventions, a series of international treaties that govern the appropriate treatment of prisoners of war.

    Rumsfeld told lawmakers this week that the detainees at Abu Ghraib were covered by the conventions.

    The conventions state specifically that while being interrogated, prisoners “may not be threatened, insulted or exposed to any unpleasant ... treatment of any kind.”



    But the list of approved U.S. guidelines allows interrogators to subject prisoners to sleep and sensory deprivation for up to 72 hours and force them to hold “stress positions” for as long as 45 minutes, threaten them with guard dogs, keep them isolated for longer than 30 days and manipulate their diets.

    Senators challenged Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz over the rules at a hearing Thursday of the Armed Services Committee.

    “A bag over your head for 72 hours — is that humane?” asked Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I.

    When Wolfowitz began to answer by saying, “Let me come back to what you said the work of the government ..., ” Reed cut him off and demanded: “No, no — answer the question, secretary.”

    Wolfowitz conceded, “What you’ve described to me sounds, to me, like a violation of the Geneva Convention.”

    Gen. Peter Pace, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, went a step further, saying directly: “I would describe it as a violation, sir.”

    timeline Prisoner abuse in Iraq

    Key dates in the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal

    Aug. 31-Sept. 9, 2003
    Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, who runs the military prison for terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, conducts an inquiry on interrogation and detention procedures in Iraq. He suggests that prison guards can help set conditions for the interrogation of prisoners.

    October-December
    Many of the alleged abuses at Abu Ghraib take place during this time period.


    Oct. 13-Nov. 6
    Maj. Gen. Donald Ryder, provost marshal of the Army, investigates conditions of U.S.-run prisons in Iraq, including Abu Ghraib. He finds problems throughout the prisons. Some units, including the 800th Military Police Brigade, did not receive adequate training to guard prisons, he notes. He also says military police (MPs) should not assist in making prisoners more pliable to interrogation, as their job is to keep prisoners safe.

    Nov. 19
    The 205th Military Intelligence Brigade is given responsibility for Abu Ghraib prison and authority over the 800th Military Police Brigade.

    November
    Two Iraqi detainees die in separate incidents that involved CIA interrogation officers.

    Jan. 13, 2004
    Army Spc. Joseph M. Darby, an MP with the 800th at Abu Ghraib, first reports cases of abuse at the prison.

    Jan. 16
    Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez orders a criminal investigation into reports of abuse at the prison by members of the brigade. The military also announces the investigation publicly.

    Jan. 19
    Sanchez orders a separate administrative investigation into the 800th MP Brigade. Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba is appointed to conduct that inquiry on Jan. 31.

    Late January - early February
    President Bush becomes aware of the charges sometime in this time period, according to White House spokesman Scott McClellan, although the spokesman has not pinpointed a date. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld tells Bush of the charges, McClellan has said.

    Feb. 23
    Seventeen U.S. soldiers suspended from duties pending outcome of investigation.

    Feb. 24
    International Committee of the Red Cross provides the Coalition Authority with a confidential report on detention in Iraq. Portions of the report are published without ICRC consent by the Wall Street Journal on May 7.

    March 3-9
    Taguba presents his report to his commanders. He finds widespread abuse of prisoners by military police and military intelligence. He also agrees with Ryder that guards should not play any role in the interrogation of prisoners.

    March 20
    Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt tells reporters six military personnel have been charged with criminal offenses.

    Mid April
    Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, asks CBS-TV to delay airing photographs it has obtained of abuse at Abu Ghraib. Myers says the photos would exacerbate an intense period of violence under way in Iraq. CBS delays its program for two weeks.

    April 28

    Rumsfeld meets with senators in a closed briefing on the war in Iraq. Rumsfeld neglects to mention the issue of prisoner abuse or the coming disclosure of photos.

    CBS “60 Minutes II” airs the photos, setting off an international outcry. Bush first learns about these photos from the television report, his aides say.


    Early May
    CIA confirms that some of its officers hid Iraqi prisoners from watchdog groups like the Red Cross.

    May 1
    An article by Seymour Hersh, published on The New Yorker magazine's Web site, reveals contents of Taguba's report.

    May 2
    Myers admits on ABC’s "This Week" that he has not yet read the Taguba report issued in March.

    May 3
    Officials say the Army has reprimanded seven soldiers in the abuse of inmates at Abu Ghraib.

    May 4
    U.S. Army discloses that it is conducting criminal investigations of 10 prisoner deaths in U.S. custody in Afghanistan and Iraq - beyond two already ruled homicides - plus another 10 abuse cases. (The number grows by two on May 5, when the CIA says it is investigating more cases.)

    May 5
    President Bush appears on two Arab television channels to address the scandal but does not apologize for the abuse of iraqi prisoners by U.S. troops. The following day Bush does apologize.

    May 6

    The Washington Post publishes four additional photos.

    President Bush privately admonishes Rumsfeld for not keeping him informed about the issue.


    May 7
    Rumsfeld testifies before the Senate and House Armed Services Committees on the issue of prisoner abuse in Iraq. Separately, Army Pfc. Lynndie England, shown in photographs smiling and pointing at naked Iraqi prisoners, is charged with assaulting detainees and conspiring to mistreat them.



    Source: Associated Press, MSNBC research, NBC News



    ‘It was a body blow’
    The scandal emerged when proceedings were opened in January against the seven military police, but it exploded into a global issue with the release of soldiers’ photographs two weeks ago.

    Asked this week at a Senate hearing to put into simple words how the abuses happened, Taguba said: “Failure in leadership, sir, from the brigade commander on down. Lack of discipline, no training whatsoever and no supervision. Supervisory omission was rampant.”

    Rumsfeld said Thursday that the incidents “sullied the reputation of our country. I was stunned. It was a body blow. And with six or seven investigations under way and a country that has values and a military justice system that has values, we know that those involved, whoever they are, will be brought to justice.”

    Lawmakers were allow to view many of the photographs and video clips Wednesday and said they were even worse than they had expected, depicting “disgusting” and “appalling” instances of torture and humiliation.

    “I don’t know how the hell these people got into our Army,” said Ben Nighthorse Campbell, R-Colo.

    Abu Ghraib Prison Abuse: A Who's Who

    • PFC. LYNNDIE ENGLAND | 372d MILITARY POLICE COMPANY
    • CPL. CHARLES GRANER JR. | 372d MILITARY POLICE COMPANY
    • SPC. SABRINA HARMAN | 372d MILITARY POLICE COMPANY
    • SGT. JAVAL DAVIS | 372d MILITARY POLICE COMPANY
    • SPC. JEREMY SIVITS | 372d MILITARY POLICE COMPANY
    • S/SGT. VAN FREDERICK II | 372d MILITARY POLICE COMPANY
    • SPC. MEGAN AMBUHL | 372d MILITARY POLICE COMPANY
    • A MAN OF CONSCIENCE:
    SPC. JOSEPH DARBY | 372d MILITARY POLICE COMPANY






    Rumsfeld: Keep photos private

    Rumsfeld said on his flight Thursday to Baghdad that Bush administration lawyers were advising the Defense Department not to publicly release any more photographs of U.S. soldiers’ behavior at Abu Ghraib.

    He said the lawyers were concerned that releasing the materials would violate another stricture of the Geneva Conventions against presenting images of prisoners that could be construed as degrading.

    House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi of California agreed Thursday that for now, the photographs should remain private, saying legal concerns, in addition to considerations relating to the Geneva Conventions, may outweigh the need for transparency.

    Pelosi called the materials, which she viewed Wednesday, profoundly disturbing but said they essentially were more of what the public had already seen.

    Sen. John Warner, R-Va., chairman of the Armed Services Committee, also said the images should remain private, saying that showing them to the world could “inspire the enemy.”

    Fears that the prisoner abuses would trigger a violent backlash were realized Tuesday when a video clip was posted on a Web site linked to al-Qaida showing the beheading of a U.S. civilian. A voice on the clip said the killing was to avenge the prisoner abuse.

    Suspect’s lawyers fight back
    Womack’s decision to provide NBC with the new photograph of Graner and the other soldiers appeared intended to establish that his client was under the command of military intelligence officers and could not have known that the orders he was following were illegal.

    Graner is scheduled to be arraigned May 20 on military charges of maltreatment and indecent acts, Womack said Thursday, adding that Graner would plead not guilty.

    • Interrogation practices
    May 13: The U.S. military, eager to get its point of view across, arranged for reporters to visit the base where official interrogation training takes place. NBC’s Kerry Sanders reports.
    Nightly News




    Six other U.S. military police reservists are charged with sexually and physically tormenting detainees at Abu Ghraib. One of them, Spc. Jeremy C. Sivits of Hyndman, Pa., goes on trial Wednesday in Baghdad before a special court-martial. Two others, Staff Sgt. Ivan Frederick II and Sgt. Javal S. Davis, will also be arraigned May 20, the Army said Thursday.

    The lawyer for another of the soldiers, Pfc. Lynndie England, accused the Defense Department on Thursday of withholding evidence necessary to her defense.

    The attorney, Giorgio Ra’Shadd, maintained Wednesday that the Defense Department had denied him access to pictures, names and other information that could help his client, who was photographed taunting naked Iraqi prisoners.

    To help prove his point, Ra’Shadd held up nearly black photocopies of images turned over to him by military authorities. Outlines of nude men could be seen in some of the pictures. Some apparently do not include England, 21, a reservist from West Virginia, who is pregnant with Graner’s child.

    Ra’Shadd said he could not issue subpoenas to civilian intelligence officers who England says ordered her to appear in the photographs because the military would not release their names.

    “You have to allow people to defend themselves,” Ra’Shadd said from a motel near Fort Bragg, N.C., where England has been stationed since returning from Iraq in March.

    Master Sgt. Ken Heller, a spokesman for the 18th Airborne Corps based at Fort Bragg, said he was not able to immediately respond to Ra’Shadd’s accusations.

    Lax conditions at Abu Ghraib described
    Meanwhile, U.S. troops who served at Abu Ghraib said Thursday that sex and alcoholism were commonplace among guards even though they were forbidden. Soldiers even set up a candle-lit room for sex shows, they said.

    “There was lots of affairs. There was all kinds of adultery and alcoholism and all kinds of crap going on,” Dave Bischel, a National Guardsman with the 870th Military Police unit, told Reuters. Bischel returned home last month after service at Abu Ghraib.

    The statements added to the reactions of lawmakers who viewed the hundreds of photos and video clips shot at Abu Ghraib. The New York Post quoted a member of Congress as saying on condition of anonymity that among the materials were numerous images showing England having sex with numerous partners.

    “It appeared to be consensual,” the lawmaker said. The newspaper quoted another lawmaker as saying, “Almost everybody was naked all the time.”

    Bischel told Reuters: “There was a bed found in one of the abandoned buildings. There was a mattress on the ground. They had chairs all circled around it and candles all over the place. Chairs [were] around it obviously for an audience.”

    Sex rumors were rampant among those serving in Abu Ghraib. “One of the female soldiers supposedly had sex in a gang bang,” said Terry Stowe, another California MP who has since returned home. “From time to time, things like this would happen.”

    Sgt. Mike Sindar said there were also whispers that some soldiers had sex with Iraqi inmates.

    Capt. Patrick Swan, a U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad, described a “no-sex policy in theater,” which means soldiers are forbidden to have sex anywhere in Iraq.

    Lust apparently led to the dismissal of the 870th unit’s first commander, Capt. Leo Merck, on charges that he photographed his female soldiers as they showered. At least one soldier said others had photographed naked female soldiers in the showers.

    The 870th had just six females out of 124 MPs, but other U.S. units serving at Abu Ghraib had higher ratios of women.

    By MSNBC’s Alex Johnson with NBC’s Jim Miklaszewski. NBC’s Ned Colt in Baghdad and Mike Viqueira in Washington, The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
     
  2. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    1. We have several threads devoted to the topic of Abu Ghraib. Is there a need for yet another one? Let's respect bandwidth constraints please.

    2. Did anyone actually think intel officers were *not* involved in this? To me, it's preferable if they were, at least then you know the treatment was for intelligence extraction purposes instead of sheer sadism.
     
  3. Major

    Major Member

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    2. Did anyone actually think intel officers were *not* involved in this? To me, it's preferable if they were, at least then you know the treatment was for intelligence extraction purposes instead of sheer sadism.

    So you would agree that the administration lied to the public when they claimed these were just isolated incidents and not tolerated behavior?
     
  4. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Of course your logic is deeply flawed... One has nothing to do with the other. I actually support the interrogation techniques of sexual humiliation which were used in Abu Ghraib, so I have no problem with this. Your attempt to equate intelligence officers using the techniques with the techniques being "non-isolated" is simply laughable. I would say nice try, but really it wasn't. Typically you come with a little stronger effort than that Major. I'm disappointed.
     
  5. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Yes...his logic is flawed.


    Our own military's internal investigation says it's not isloated. The Red Cross says it's not isolated. Several witnesses there say it's not isolated.


    But you do.


    Sure, logical.



    May 12, 2004. 07:30 AM
    Toronto Star

    OAKLAND ROSS
    FEATURE WRITER

    Hell, in Iraq, erupts at night.

    First, they break down your door and clamber inside — large, Yankee soldiers in combat gear with automatic rifles.

    They bark orders, wrest men, women and children from their beds, assemble everyone in a single room. They start smashing your possessions in front of you — cabinets, chairs, tables, anything.

    They shout insults, brandish their weapons, kick and punch their captives, striking out with their rifle barrels at anyone who resists.

    They handcuff those they want — typically, anyone who happens to be male, no matter how old or infirm.

    They hustle their prisoners, generally clad only in pyjamas or underwear, out into the dark Iraqi night. Essential items, such as eyeglasses or medicine, are invariably left behind.

    They don't say where they are taking you, they don't say why, and they probably never will.

    You are terrified, practically naked, already in acute physical distress, and almost certainly innocent of wrongdoing, but that doesn't seem to matter a whit.

    This — as depicted in a report by the International Committee of the Red Cross — is merely the first circle of hell in an Iraq under occupation by U.S.-led military forces, and your torment has barely begun.

    It gets far, far worse.

    Recently, the entire world has recoiled in horror and outrage at photographs illustrating the sometimes savage treatment inflicted upon Iraqi political detainees by U.S. military prison guards at the Abu Ghraib detention facility in Baghdad.

    As disturbing as those images are — and there other, even more alarming images that have yet to reach the public — they provide only a small and sickening hint of what has been taking place in Iraq since a U.S.-led military coalition invaded the country more than a year ago.

    As detailed in a powerful, 24-page report by the Red Cross — completed in February and leaked to the public in the last few days — the terrorizing of Iraqi detainees, their gross physical abuse and psychological humiliation, are far from being rare or exceptional acts carried out by rogue prison guards.

    Instead, says the Red Cross, they are part of a deliberate, systematic strategy applied in the initial stages of a prisoner's detention, aimed at breaking him down mentally and physically, so he will be more likely to co-operate during interrogation.

    The Red Cross says the abuses are widespread, they appear to have the approval of those in charge of the coalition forces, and in some cases they are "tantamount to torture." They have caused death, permanent injury and unspeakable suffering.

    The Red Cross report provides many lurid examples of the kinds of abuse regularly meted out during a nine-month period last year by military guards at a variety of detention facilities in Iraq and parallels findings by U.S. Maj.-Gen. Antonio Taguba, who in a separate report has documented a series of grotesque and probably criminal offences carried out against detainees at the Abu Ghraib detention facility in Baghdad.

    Several photographs of the horrors described by Taguba have already found their way into public view, but others have not. In time, they likely will. Yesterday, the United Nations children's agency issued a statement in Geneva, saying it was "profoundly disturbed" by reports children may have been among those mistreated. According to one report, still unreleased videotapes of abuses against detainees include images of Iraqi guards raping young boys at the Abu Ghraib prison.

    Based on Taguba's findings and on those of the Red Cross, here are some of the disturbing snapshots that we have yet to see — pictures of hell in Iraq.

    One naked detainee is forced to stand on a box with a sandbag on his head and with wires attached to his fingers, toes and penis to simulate electrical-shock torture.

    A male military guard rapes a female detainee.

    A guard smashes a chemical light and pours the phosphoric liquid on several detainees.

    A detainee is beaten with a broom handle and a chair.

    A detainee has his head slammed against a wall and his guard promptly stitches up the wound himself.

    A hooded detainee is made to lie down on what is likely a running truck engine, burning him so badly he requires three months in hospital, extensive skin grafts over much of his body and the amputation of a finger.

    A detainee is force-fed a baseball bat, which is then secured in place with a scarf.

    Male detainees are forced to parade naked in public, with women's underwear wrapped over their heads.

    Detainees are made to sit for hours in direct sunlight in 50-degree temperatures or forced to remain in awkward positions for hours at a time.

    Detainees are kept naked in solitary confinement without light for days at a time.

    A 28-year-old detainee, married with two children, is beaten to death by his captors, and his death is officially attributed to cardio-respiratory arrest-asphyxia, cause unknown.

    The litany of horrors goes on and on, and the abuses continued unabated last year even though the Red Cross regularly expressed its concerns to coalition forces, making it difficult to reach any conclusion except the Red Cross' own — that this harsh and inhuman treatment has been encouraged or at least tolerated at senior levels of the occupying armies.

    Hard as it may be to believe, the detainees captured by coalition forces are the lucky ones.

    Those picked up by the Iraqi police — a force that operates under U.S. authority and control — often proceed at once to the innermost circle of hell.

    The Red Cross report documents horrific practices carried out by the Iraqi police against detainees in their charge, often with the purpose of extorting money from them, sometimes prior to turning them over to coalition forces for further interrogation.

    Abuses cited by the Red Cross include whipping prisoners with cables, kicking them in the testicles, hanging them from iron bars by their handcuffs, burning them with cigarettes, pretending to shoot them with unloaded pistols, threatening to rape their wives, and pouring water on their legs while giving them electrical shocks with live, stripped wires.

    Finally, it should be noted that the vast majority of the political detainees in Iraq are likely innocent of any wrongdoing.

    According to the Red Cross report, coalition military intelligence officers themselves estimate that somewhere between 70 and 90 per cent of those whom they detain have been picked up by mistake and are guilty of nothing at all, except the crime of living in an occupied country and stumbling into a foreign-administered hell.
     

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