From the Boston Globe. Sorry John, but these guys don't sound like frauds to me... http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2004/05/09/spanish_troops_find_return_bittersweet?mode=PF -- Spanish troops find return bittersweet By Charles M. Sennott, Globe Staff BADAJOZ, Spain -- For centuries, Spanish conquerors have been coming home to this rugged, remote terrain near the border with Portugal. The gray stone castles and the towering cathedrals that dot the rocky countryside were built 500 years ago by native conquistadors returning triumphantly from the New World after plundering its riches. Last week, Spanish soldiers hastily withdrawn from service in Iraq by the newly elected government of Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero returned to the sprawling military base here and a welcome-home ceremony. A sign at the base entrance read, "Todo por la patria," or "All for the Country." But many of the soldiers said they were having a hard time mustering much pride about their homecoming, and they were anything but triumphant in their return to a country where the vast majority opposed the Iraq war. They certainly don't see themselves as conquerors, and they aren't returning with riches. "It didn't really feel like that much of a homecoming for us. It felt more like a political celebration for Zapatero and those who never wanted us there in the first place," said Manuel Garcia, 31, a sergeant in a brigade that was among the entire Spanish contingent of 1,300 troops ordered home. "We felt like a used car being passed from one owner to the next," said Felipe Collado, 30, also a sergeant in the Plus Ultra II brigade, which arrived home Wednesday to a ceremony attended by Zapatero, his defense minister, and top brass. The soldiers returned to a nation still traumatized, and in many ways transformed, by the horrific March 11 train bombings by Islamic terrorists and the bitterly divisive national election held just three days after the attack. In an upset victory that brought the war on terror and the war in Iraq into sharp focus, the Socialist Party leader Zapatero was swept into power, defeating the conservative party of Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar, who had supported the US-led invasion and sent troops as part of "the coalition of the willing." Spaniards widely applauded Zapatero after he made good on his campaign pledge to pull out Spanish troops before June 30, when the US-led coalition is to cede power to Iraqis. While all of the soldiers interviewed said they were relieved to be home and out of the harrowing dangers of serving in Iraq, most of them -- even some originally opposed to the war -- also expressed regret over Zapatero's decision. They said they were forced to abandon what they felt was a useful humanitarian mission. During their time on the ground, they said, they saw a profound need for international troops to stabilize the chaos and violence of postwar Iraq. "We should have stayed and finished our mission," said Jose Francisco Casteneda, 29, who was among four sergeants who gathered at a local restaurant Thursday -- sharing newly developed snapshots of their time in Iraq. Each image rekindled all of the intensity and emotion of what they saw during their mission. The soldiers ate medallions of steak smothered in a thick gravy of Roquefort cheese, a local dish several of them said they dreamed about while eating canned rations behind the sandbagged walls of their makeshift barracks near Najaf, Iraq. Over coffee, the soldiers grumbled about what they viewed as the staged homecoming. They said that on the day they arrived, they were not given a rest but put through a training exercise for the ceremony the following morning. They said that many fellow soldiers, who had come back in the earlier wave of troop charters back home, were on vacations with their families when they were ordered back to base for the ceremony. The TV footage of the ceremony shows Zapatero flashing a broad smile that political cartoonists love to lampoon. The soldiers said they couldn't hide their disappointment that the prime minister did not directly address them and left it to Defense Minister Jose Bono. "A lot of us were wondering, 'Who is this parade for anyway?' " Collado asked. Cesar Royo, 29, a communications specialist for the brigade who had just returned to his new bride, said he was among more than 90 percent of Spaniards who surveys suggest were against the US-led invasion and Aznar's decision to send troops to support the effort. But Royo also said he came away from his experience with a sense that the Spanish troops had something important to contribute, and he felt their mission was cut short in a way that smells of retreat and feels less than noble. "America's reason for going to war was cynical," he said. "But when you are there on the ground, you see the poverty and people living in mud houses next to Saddam's palaces, [and] the work we were doing seems justified. It had valor." Most Spaniards disagree that the war has valor. Jesus Nunez, director of the Institute of Studies on Conflicts and Humanitarian Action, which is in Madrid, said: "This was a military mission camouflaged as a humanitarian mission. Sure, they were working in the schools, and in infrastructure projects, but let us understand that was just a tag-on. . . . The former government had an interest in making it look like the troops were there to give humanitarian aid, because they knew nobody welcomed the idea of Spain being in a war." The mission, whatever its aim, was dramatically curtailed as the Iraqi insurgency increased its attacks on coalition troops. On Feb. 4, a Spanish brigade commander was killed by a gunshot to the head in an ambush after helping train Iraqi police. His widow was given a posthumous medal at the ceremony at the base. On April 4, the situation deteriorated further in Najaf, where the US military moved to arrest the defiant Shi'ite Muslim cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, who remains at large. On April 8, a Spanish convoy was ambushed, and three soldiers were wounded. The first week in March, orders came from Madrid for soldiers not to take unnecessary risks, leaving soldiers to assume Aznar feared casualties could cost him the March 14 election. The soldiers were stunned March 11, when casualties mounted not in Iraq but on Madrid's major commuter line at rush hour, where a sequence of 10 bombs killed 191 people and wounded more than 2,000. They were following developments on short-wave radios, as it became apparent that the attacks probably were carried out by Islamic militants punishing Spain for its involvement in Iraq. When Zapatero was ushered into power, the soldiers said, they knew their service was soon to come to an end. The only Spanish troops still in Iraq are folding up their tents and packing military equipment. The final phase of their withdrawal is to be completed by the end of this week. The Spanish pullout has left the coalition badly frayed. On the heels of the bloodiest month of occupation, Honduras and the Dominican Republic have also decided to withdraw. Poland, Thailand, Kazakhstan, and the Philippines have reminded Washington that their troop commitments are not open-ended. The Spanish troops based in Badajoz come home to careers in the military that seem uncertain. All are part of the professional military established five years ago, when the country ended the mandatory draft. In one of the new housing units where every street is named for a famous Spanish castle and where many military families live in the affordable units, Marco Antonio Torvisco, 29, a corporal in an infantry's tactical group, lives with his mother, Maria, who works at a local McDonald's. Torvisco was among the three soldiers wounded April 8, which was Holy Thursday. For his mother, it made personal her feelings of opposition to the war, even though she says she remains proud of her son for "doing his job." Torvisco, who suffered shrapnel wounds, said it was difficult for him to discuss his service. "The great majority do not understand what we were doing there or what we went through," Torvisco said. "I think it was worth it to bring peace to a country at war, as we had helped to do in Kosovo and Afghanistan. But I also know that I won't be able to convince a lot of people in this country of that."
John Kerry did not call the soldiers frauds, but he called the 'coalition' a fraud, and I agree with him on that. Or at least I believe that it's not a 'coalition' of any to a significant extent. The quote is strange. He said that he wanted to bring peace to a country at war, but Iraq wasn't at war. No wonder he'll have a hard time convincing people that's what they were doing.
No, Badajoz was one of the seminal battles of the Penninsual War, a war where the dominant power of the day invaded, nominally to bring Democracy, but were opposed by locals who comitted atrocities against the inavading troops( including hanging disemboweled soldiers upside down from bridges). The origins of "guerilla" war, or little-war as a recognized form. This largely confused citizens of France, who didn't understand why their liberation was being opposed at all, let alone by such atrocities. Let's hope we don't get any "red" coats involved in this one...
i thought maybe the origin of the name Badajoz was Islamic...from the Moops...I mean the Moors. "no...i'm sorry..it says Moops!"
Lol! You're in an irreverent, whimsical pop culture mood today, I see. One or two clerics show outrage, MadMax turns into Bobby Mcferin meets Robin Williams.
This article is more about the pride of the soilders more than their opinions on the actual mission. No one wants to feel like a quitter, but the Spainish people made their feelings know in the election.
Not sure what the "Penninsual War' was, but I have heard of the Peninsular War, and i'm quite sure the concept of guerrilla war predates Napoleon.
The concept might but the first modern guerrillas were the Spanish irregular guerrilleros (mostly just bandits with a cause) who harassed the supply lines, etc of the Grande Armee, hence the name. MacBeth is quite right overall and raises an interesting parallel that I hadn't thought of before...the 1812 Consititution and political and economic reforms that Joseph Bonaparte tried to introduce in Spain would have gone a long way towards modernizing Spain and the average Spaniard would have been much better off. Hence, the small group of progressive Spanish who had knowledge of the enlightenment covertly & overtly supported the Bonaparte regime. Unfortunately, in the aftermath of the war, corrupt, idiotic reactionary Ferdinand VII was able to play off of frenzied nationalistic impulses and get re-installed, and then strengthened the Inquisition and the old guard, which basically meant Spain was doomed to a hundred and fifty more years of stagnation and poverty. Not unlike the possibilities for postwar Iraq under a fundamentalist regime.
Yes. I can't type. Thanks for noticing. However, while what we would now term guerilla warfare has an ancient history ( even going back to Spain...against the Romans) , as I said " as an accepted form", its origins are in the Penninsular war.
Like a defeated Nazi officer once said about the legendary General Patton right after the fall of Berlin:..."I use to fear him, but because I respect him so, I now fear for him, because this warrior will no longer have a place like me..." No doubt, these soldiers feel used and out of place, especially considering once they believed in this cause...
Max, you're not far off. This may not be the most scholorly source, but it's a very brief history of Badajoz... Badajoz Related: Spanish Geography (bäthähôth´) , city (1990 pop. 126,781), capital of Badajoz prov., SW Spain, in Extremadura, on the Guadiana River. Situated in an agricultural region, food processing is the main industry. Strategically located near the border of Portugal, it has an active trade with that country. Badajoz was a fortress city in Roman times that rose to prominence under the Moors as the seat (1022-94) of a vast independent emirate. Alfonso IX of León liberated it in 1228. Thereafter Badajoz was repeatedly attacked by the Portuguese and was consequently strongly fortified. The city has often been besieged; in the Peninsular War the French failed to take it in a long siege (1808-9) and succeeded in 1811 only to be driven out by Wellington in 1812 after bitter fighting. In the civil war of 1936-39 the capture (1936) of Badajoz by the Insurgents after a bloody battle was followed by hundreds of executions. http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/B/Badajoz.asp basso, I'm not surprised that the Spanish soldiers were frustrated at the way they returned. They have pride, as they should, but I think you're missing the point in your attempt to thump Kerry with this. Here is a quote from your own article... "While all of the soldiers interviewed said they were relieved to be home and out of the harrowing dangers of serving in Iraq, most of them -- even some originally opposed to the war -- also expressed regret over Zapatero's decision. They said they were forced to abandon what they felt was a useful humanitarian mission. During their time on the ground, they said, they saw a profound need for international troops to stabilize the chaos and violence of postwar Iraq." Cesar Royo, 29, a communications specialist for the brigade who had just returned to his new bride, said he was among more than 90 percent of Spaniards who surveys suggest were against the US-led invasion and Aznar's decision to send troops to support the effort. But Royo also said he came away from his experience with a sense that the Spanish troops had something important to contribute, and he felt their mission was cut short in a way that smells of retreat and feels less than noble. "America's reason for going to war was cynical," he said. "But when you are there on the ground, you see the poverty and people living in mud houses next to Saddam's palaces, [and] the work we were doing seems justified. It had valor." basso, what we see here, in my opinion, are highly trained troops who, when they were given a mission, wanted to complete it and found value in what they were doing. They felt dishonor in the way they were pulled out. There is nothing surprising about that. In your own highlighted quote, one soldier says, "I think it was worth it to bring peace to a country at war." basso, this is not a soldier saying anything about the wisdom of invading Iraq and beginning this war. As another soldier expressed above, "America's reason for going to war was cynical"... and this says more about Bush than about Kerry. I think you need to reflect on the substance of your own post. In my opinion, of course.
Would they have felt the same as peacekeepers? European Military Might Lacks Numbers "I think that we've probably reached the limit of the number of European troops that we will see on the ground in Iraq. The only other nation that can contribute a substantial number of troops is France, and they have categorically rejected that," Nile Gardiner, a fellow at the Heritage Foundation (search), told Foxnews.com. A common moniker for Europe is that it is an economic giant and a military midget. While many European militaries are transforming and modernizing, few European countries have significant armies. For one, those countries don't spend the cash needed to maintain large numbers of soldiers. Two, much of the money that is appropriated goes to salaries and training for conscripts, who are only in uniform for nine to 12 months and can do little to expand each nation's capabilities. "If you separate Britain and France, there are very small numbers of combat troops available," said Gardiner. "I don’t believe that European nations really have the quality of troops required for combat situations in Iraq apart from major players like Britain and France." .... "The bottom line is that if everyone woke up in Europe and wanted to do this, we wouldn’t get 100,000 troops," she said. Radek Sikorski, director of the American Enterprise Institute's New Atlantic Initiative (search) and former Polish deputy defense minister, said the paucity of deployable European troops is partly due to Cold War military structures. "The number that could be dispatched out of area is still very low because of the legacy of the Cold War. Remember that this was the bargain that Europe struck with the U.S. — Europeans developed large standing armies in agreement with the U.S. The rest of the world was the U.S.'s responsibility," Sikorski said. Sikorski said that despite its weak combat readiness, Europe's peacekeeping abilities are a different story, with significant assets — for instance, the police-style training of the Italian Carabinieri (search) — and greater willingness to participate. Were a U.N. flag to fly over the mission in Iraq, more European troops would be available, Sikorski said, adding that the United Nations would foot the bill and peacekeeping is less hazardous than war.
