1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Critical Race Theory.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by jiggyfly, May 17, 2021.

  1. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Messages:
    17,232
    Likes Received:
    14,021
    wow I think I agree with this.
     
  2. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    124,050
    Likes Received:
    32,954
    There is nothing wrong with teaching TRUTH and letting people learn from history.

    We have bigger problems when we have a guy lying about losing an election and 70% of his party believe it, when there is ZERO evidence.

    TRUTH should matter.....

    DD
     
  3. DCkid

    DCkid Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2001
    Messages:
    9,558
    Likes Received:
    2,510
    Yeah, I don't think the term Critical Race Theory is even mentioned by school boards that are proposing this. I also think these proposed changes have little to do with things like changing history curriculum to be more accurate/truthful. That may be a small part of it.

    I'll try go give my opinion/understanding of what these changes are proposing. But first, you probably need to look about how race is talked about in schools currently. I think many school have always approached talking about race very carefully. It's talked about in a historical context of course when it is relevant, but there are not specific lessons to talk about race itself. Like, what it means to be white, what it means to be black, etc. It seems like the default approach to talking about race in schools is to not really talk about it much at all. Take kind of a passive "all men are created equal" approach. "It don't matter if you're black or white" kind of thinking. I'm sure one reason for this is to just avoid "controversial issues" in school. However, it's also a philosophy of trying to raise kids who don't see race as all that important (i.e., color blind, etc.).

    These proposed changes pretty much flip the script and removes talking about race as a "controversial issue." The main change is teachers will be encouraged to talk about race. This includes things like racism in today's society, white privilege, how to fight discrimination and power, etc. It will ask kids to the see/acknowledge the differences in each other based on race. That is the more "direct" aspect of the changes. There's also more indirect changes that would address "systemic/hidden" issues with teaching students of different racial backgrounds and asking teachers to be aware of their implicit biases. I'm not exactly sure what tangible changes this entails, but it's altering the way and methods things are taught to be more inclusive to other races (not the "what," but the "how"). Again, this isn't just history we're talking about, this could even affect how subjects like math are taught. I'd have to do more research about what this involves. I know Oregon had some controversy where the school board was being accused of pushing the theory that focusing on the correct answer is a form of white supremacy. That's lacking heavy context I'm sure, but just one example.

    Anyway, this is just my understanding of what we're talking about here, which may be completely wrong and vary by location. :)
     
    #23 DCkid, May 18, 2021
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
    jiggyfly likes this.
  4. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    This.

    Nicely stated.
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  5. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    If you start teaching most of this it should be a sociology class not a history class, now we do teach a bit of sociology in history and give an explanation of race but history should never be about opinion and who is right and wrong IMO.
     
  6. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    20,386
    Likes Received:
    16,554
    I didn't know this was starting to be taught in High Schools and Elementary schools.

    I first learned about this in a second year sociolegal studies class in university. This was taught along side other critical theories.

    I personally think teaching this in high school is a bit premature. But it all depends on how it's taught. Students should be taught to critically think about the themes of these social theories, not adopt any of these theories as absolute truth.
     
    STR8Thugg, JumpMan and Invisible Fan like this.
  7. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    This is not being taught in High Schools and Elementary, where are you getting that from?
     
  8. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    20,386
    Likes Received:
    16,554
    I don't know, I read some of your articles, isn't this about banning CRT being taught in public schools, AKA pre college/university.

    I'm not American, I assume this is not about banning CRT from being taught in colleges, because that would be ridiculous
     
  9. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    34,107
    Likes Received:
    13,495
    It's just a propaganda piece this Max Eden guy got paid to write. From the clumsy strawmanning, I'd say he should give the money back.
    Per usual, they debate the wrong thing -- what the content should be instead of what the skills should be. I don't like how what gets taught is such a top-down exercise. Politicians and political action committees try to decide how my children should be educated and if I don't like it or the teacher doesn't like it, we can lump it. Even with public education, you can devolve the authority to set the class syllabus to the individual schools, teachers, and attending families. I personally don't think it matters if kids are taught that whites are racists or America is exceptional or speciation is the result of intelligent design. Kids should be graduating with the intellectual skills to be able to examine a theory critically and decide for themselves what has merit regardless of whatever content came with it (if they have the thinking skills, eventually systemic racism will become obvious to them anyway). You can teach skills when you get talented teachers and give them the freedom to teach.
     
    subtomic likes this.
  10. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    56,158
    Likes Received:
    48,003
    "When Paul Rossi, a high school teacher at Manhattan's Grace Church School, objected to CRT at his school..."
    ______

    Third paragraph in the OP.
     
    London'sBurning likes this.
  11. Agent94

    Agent94 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2002
    Messages:
    2,700
    Likes Received:
    2,550
    Postmodern philosophy is awful and CRT is an extension of it. Invisible Fan nailed it with his reply, but it seems most people don't understand what it's all about. This article describes it pretty well - https://claremontindependent.com/postmodernism-poisons-the-liberal-arts/:

    “Postmodernism” is one of those words that gets thrown around a lot, but rarely gets defined. Basically, it is a philosophy ... Its central criticism is that how we understand the world has more to do with power dynamics than truth. This interpretation of the world extends to everything, from literature to hard science.

    When you look at the world this way, what is true really does not matter. What is important is who has power and who is disenfranchised.

    When it seizes control of disciplines or departments on college campuses, postmodernism turns them away from interrogating what is true and instead towards categorizing power dynamics. It is like a more convoluted version of the old Marxist idea of the proletariat, bourgeoisie, and aristocracy in constant struggle. There is the oppressor and the oppressed, not only in terms of economic power, but also in terms of gender, race, and sexual orientation—all of which can be categorized ad nauseum. And everything gets filtered through this lens.
     
  12. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    Even he said that what was being taught was just based on CRT and it was not part of the curriculum with that said admin of this school seems to be on one.

    Just read the things they were promoting.

    https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/i-refuse-to-stand-by-while-my-students
     
  13. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    Here is the piece that was written by the teacher sighted in the 1st article.

    I shocked that anyone thaught these things were good ideas and I am surprised that it had been going on this long.

    This is some batshit crazy stuff being said here.

    https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/i-refuse-to-stand-by-while-my-students

    I Refuse to Stand By While My Students Are Indoctrinated
    Children are afraid to challenge the repressive ideology that rules our school. That’s why I am.
    [​IMG]
    Paul Rossi

    Apr 13 336


    I am a teacher at Grace Church High School in Manhattan. Ten years ago, I changed careers when I discovered how rewarding it is to help young people explore the truth and beauty of mathematics. I love my work.

    As a teacher, my first obligation is to my students. But right now, my school is asking me to embrace “antiracism” training and pedagogy that I believe is deeply harmful to them and to any person who seeks to nurture the virtues of curiosity, empathy and understanding.

    “Antiracist” training sounds righteous, but it is the opposite of truth in advertising. It requires teachers like myself to treat students differently on the basis of race. Furthermore, in order to maintain a united front for our students, teachers at Grace are directed to confine our doubts about this pedagogical framework to conversations with an in-house “Office of Community Engagement” for whom every significant objection leads to a foregone conclusion. Any doubting students are likewise “challenged” to reframe their views to conform to this orthodoxy.

    I know that by attaching my name to this I’m risking not only my current job but my career as an educator, since most schools, both public and private, are now captive to this backward ideology. But witnessing the harmful impact it has on children, I can’t stay silent.

    My school, like so many others, induces students via shame and sophistry to identify primarily with their race before their individual identities are fully formed. Students are pressured to conform their opinions to those broadly associated with their race and gender and to minimize or dismiss individual experiences that don’t match those assumptions. The morally compromised status of “oppressor” is assigned to one group of students based on their immutable characteristics. In the meantime, dependency, resentment and moral superiority are cultivated in students considered “oppressed.”

    All of this is done in the name of “equity,” but it is the opposite of fair. In reality, all of this reinforces the worst impulses we have as human beings: our tendency toward tribalism and sectarianism that a truly liberal education is meant to transcend.

    Recently, I raised questions about this ideology at a mandatory, whites-only student and faculty Zoom meeting. (Such racially segregated sessions are now commonplace at my school.) It was a bait-and-switch “self-care” seminar that labelled “objectivity,” “individualism,” “fear of open conflict,” and even “a right to comfort” as characteristics of white supremacy. I doubted that these human attributes — many of them virtues reframed as vices — should be racialized in this way. In the Zoom chat, I also questioned whether one must define oneself in terms of a racial identity at all. My goal was to model for students that they should feel safe to question ideological assertions if they felt moved to do so.

    It seemed like my questions broke the ice. Students and even a few teachers offered a broad range of questions and observations. Many students said it was a more productive and substantive discussion than they expected.

    However, when my questions were shared outside this forum, violating the school norm of confidentiality, I was informed by the head of the high school that my philosophical challenges had caused “harm” to students, given that these topics were “life and death matters, about people’s flesh and blood and bone.” I was reprimanded for “acting like an independent agent of a set of principles or ideas or beliefs.” And I was told that by doing so, I failed to serve the “greater good and the higher truth.”

    He further informed me that I had created “dissonance for vulnerable and unformed thinkers” and “neurological disturbance in students’ beings and systems.” The school’s director of studies added that my remarks could even constitute harassment.

    A few days later, the head of school ordered all high school advisors to read a public reprimand of my conduct out loud to every student in the school. It was a surreal experience, walking the halls alone and hearing the words emitting from each classroom: “Events from last week compel us to underscore some aspects of our mission and share some thoughts about our community,” the statement began. “At independent schools, with their history of predominantly white populations, racism colludes with other forms of bias (sexism, classism, ableism and so much more) to undermine our stated ideals, and we must work hard to undo this history.”

    Students from low-income families experience culture shock at our school. Racist incidents happen. And bias can influence relationships. All true. But addressing such problems with a call to “undo history” lacks any kind of limiting principle and pairs any allegation of bigotry with a priori guilt. My own contract for next year requires me to “participate in restorative practices designed by the Office of Community Engagement” in order to “heal my relationship with the students of color and other students in my classes.” The details of these practices remain unspecified until I agree to sign.

    I asked my uncomfortable questions in the “self-care” meeting because I felt a duty to my students. I wanted to be a voice for the many students of different backgrounds who have approached me over the course of the past several years to express their frustration with indoctrination at our school, but are afraid to speak up.

    They report that, in their classes and other discussions, they must never challenge any of the premises of our “antiracist” teachings, which are deeply informed by Critical Race Theory. These concerns are confirmed for me when I attend grade-level and all-school meetings about race or gender issues. There, I witness student after student sticking to a narrow script of acceptable responses. Teachers praise insights when they articulate the existing framework or expand it to apply to novel domains. Meantime, it is common for teachers to exhort students who remain silent that “we really need to hear from you.”

    But what does speaking up mean in a context in which white students are asked to interrogate their “white saviorism,” but also “not make their antiracist practice about them”? We are compelling them to tiptoe through a minefield of double-binds. According to the school’s own standard for discursive violence, this constitutes abuse.

    Every student at the school must also sign a “Student Life Agreement,” which requires them to aver that “the world as we understand it can be hard and extremely biased,” that they commit to “recognize and acknowledge their biases when we come to school, and interrupt those biases,” and accept that they will be “held accountable should they fall short of the agreement.” A recent faculty email chain received enthusiastic support for recommending that we “‘officially’ flag students” who appear “resistant” to the “culture we are trying to establish.”

    When I questioned what form this resistance takes, examples presented by a colleague included “persisting with a colorblind ideology,” “suggesting that we treat everyone with respect,” “a belief in meritocracy,” and “just silence.” In a special assembly in February 2019, our head of school said that the impact of words and images perceived as racist — regardless of intent — is akin to “using a gun or a knife to kill or injure someone.”

    Imagine being a young person in this environment. Would you risk voicing your doubts, especially if you had never heard a single teacher question it?
     
  14. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/i-refuse-to-stand-by-while-my-students
    Continued......

    Last fall, juniors and seniors in my Art of Persuasion class expressed dismay with the “Grace bubble” and sought to engage with a wider range of political viewpoints. Since the BLM protests often came up in our discussions, I thought of assigning Glenn Loury, a Brown University professor and public intellectual whose writings express a nuanced, center-right position on racial issues in America. Unfortunately, my administration put the kibosh on my proposal.

    The head of the high school responded to me that “people like Loury’s lived experience—and therefore his derived social philosophy” made him an exception to the rule that black thinkers acknowledge structural racism as the paramount impediment in society. He added that “the moment we are in institutionally and culturally, does not lend itself to dispassionate discussion and debate,” and discussing Loury’s ideas would “only confuse and/or enflame students, both those in the class and others that hear about it outside of the class.” He preferred I assign “mainstream white conservatives,” effectively denying black students the opportunity to hear from a black professor who holds views that diverge from the orthodoxy pushed on them.

    I find it self-evidently racist to filter the dissemination of an idea based on the race of the person who espouses it. I find the claim that exposing 11th and 12th graders to diverse views on an important societal issue will only “confuse” them to be characteristic of a fundamentalist religion, not an educational philosophy.

    My administration says that these constraints on discourse are necessary to shield students from harm. But it is clear to me that these constraints serve primarily to shield their ideology from harm — at the cost of students’ psychological and intellectual development.

    It was out of concern for my students that I spoke out in the “self-care” meeting, and it is out of that same concern that I write today. I am concerned for students who crave a broader range of viewpoints in class. I am concerned for students trained in “race explicit” seminars to accept some opinions as gospel, while discarding as immoral disconfirming evidence. I am concerned for the dozens of students during my time at Grace who shared with me that they have been reproached by teachers for expressing views that are not aligned with the new ideology.

    One current student paid me a visit a few weeks ago. He tapped faintly on my office door, anxiously looking both ways before entering. He said he had come to offer me words of support for speaking up at the meeting.

    I thanked him for his comments, but asked him why he seemed so nervous. He told me he was worried that a particular teacher might notice this visit and “it would mean that I would get in trouble.” He reported to me that this teacher once gave him a lengthy “talking to” for voicing a conservative opinion in class. He then remembered with a sigh of relief that this teacher was absent that day. I looked him in the eyes. I told him he was a brave young man for coming to see me, and that he should be proud of that.

    Then I sent him on his way. And I resolved to write this piece.
     
  15. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    This is not an actual class or curriculum being taught in schools its an ideology that is espoused in some circles that a school or 2 is trying implement.

    Yes it's about banning something that is not really a thing.
     
    apollo33 likes this.
  16. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    47,397
    Likes Received:
    16,949
    lol i got a similar survey, possibly the same exact one.

    teaching kids what to think instead of how is always a bad idea.
     
  17. subtomic

    subtomic Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2000
    Messages:
    4,031
    Likes Received:
    2,386
    I suspect there is more to this story. At the very least, his choice of Glenn Loury (who is way more right than center right) shows a person who is very determined to push a rather right-wing perspective onracism.

    That doesn't mean Rossi lacks any legitimate perspective here. But he's not exactly a "reliable witness" so to speak.
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  18. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    It rings true to me, what line Glenn Loury falls on is an opinion and really had no real impact on the story IMO.

    If 1/4 of the things he says is happening at that school its too much IMO.

    From what he wrote and don't see at right wing perspective at all it was a logical perspective considering the examples he gave.

    With that said I do find it a little circumspect to think the school has been pushing that kind of agenda that long without any other pushback.
     
    STR8Thugg likes this.
  19. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,869
    Likes Received:
    36,423
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  20. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    61,477
    Likes Received:
    28,962
    AbButt's new law is just legalized indoctrination and sustaining white supremacy teachings and racism

    All their Double Talk . . .we are in 1984 world

    Rocket River
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now