Do you trust the Rockets to full on rebuild the right way?

Geniuinely curious, do you feel I'm "anti-tilman" Is there such a thing? I don't think us, or knicks fans even care to know the owners name thus far.
Most of the time I'm just posting his actual quotes which are dumbfounding bc he contradicts himself and lies to...US(me, you, fans) over and over again. So I thought it might make sense to add that to the discussion in a ...message board discussing the rockets.

That amounts to screaming at the world? As mentioned, I love the rockets, have been on my 3rd owner, will always love the rockets. But posting a message board doesn't ruin my day. Likewise I mean just staying aware in terms of if any lies are being told to us, I'd rather know or just see it..how is that not objective.

So if you've criticized Hardens' demeanor or game(which you did), should you have just shut up bc you have no control, be positive, and cheer him on?

Why do you not afford that to the guy on top who has the final say?

If MDA, morey or any of them are doing some BS. Isn't this the place we come to discuss among passionate fans. At the games and bars its more lighthearted, we're drunk, we're just rooting and high fiving or what not, I would think this brought another element and a lot of posters do post some really great thorough analysis.



or better than that, is this really that consequential to you that you can't stand hearing actual quotes from a guy without feeling they must be miserable for ...reading what he said?

I just find the whole thing amusing, i can't imagine if someone is lying to me I'd say this is too much. Its just an odd hyperbole steven a smith type of thing its like when you have no content to answer back, you say go on and be miserable. Whats the point of the thousands of post here, just to be the power dancer cheer leaders? Whats the point of all your post on harden?

Or is this some sort of Safe space type of gig?

I feel like that professor with you being the girl(I agree with the professor, a college is ap lace to grow and challenge new ideas....not be some home, its a 4 year pit stop to grow challenge yourself). Is clutchfans a home you need to feel safe not to hear a comment or a quote that makes you feel is negative towards the ownership of 3 years?


ITs a weird thing when people stop having arguments or there are quotes you can't argue with then they resort to silly name calling and thats when you know the argument is what it is.

Once again, my way of talking might be harsh and i genuinely don't want you to feel negative or miserable or however this stuff feels, on the real everyone deserves to come on and have the experience the want and if I was wrong for coming to the clutch fans community for more depth stuff, not being fed things like in most of talk shows that work with the teams or the league, then i'll happily see my way out. My incentive isn't to bring you down or anything like that and I get we all want the rockets to do well. I've posted a lot about how much i can see for this team, but I just don't get the constant lies from the top and thats not on anyone else and if tilman stays out of the way this time around, I'm happy to give him an applause or whatever bc its abotu whats best for the hometown team. never saw it as anti-tillman to quote the man himself or show if there are literal trails of lies if he is telling it to fans. I find that more "anti-fan" than "anti-tilman"

 

I trust it, I see all the great young pieces right now. It's not unproven bs like "this summer rockets are looking to acquire an all-star" lie that Morey fed us for a decade.

 

Wrong, young players need to be taught fundamentals or there is no point in developing them at all. If your ENTIRE roster is G League callups, enjoy your team of Carmelo Anthonys and Michael Beasleys - guys who learn to score but not how to be versatile. A couple old cheap locker room voices will help the long term trajectory of the young guys we have playing YMCA ball. I agree that we made the wrong moves this season with Oladipo and Wall. They are expensive, not high IQ, high minute players, and not mentors. Bradley, Augustin are just space fillers.

 

Do I trust tilman? The guy whose lied to the fans even with his recent 'right quotes" ? Not so mcuh, but do I think we can get this rebuild down? Yes
Theres not too much that can go wrong outside of us not getting our pick this year which would suck for a team at the bottom not to get rewarded, that said we have other picks, we have our pick next year. We have 4 guys that look like keepers and we are not sniffing the luxury tax anytime soon so i don't think Tilman can manage or will have to make the cost cuts that he did last time around. HE publicly just came out and said he won't rush the rebuild, so I think we're going to be fine, we're going to have to pay up for Wood and KPJ, but thats two season away. Isee us building our foundation of young exciting players. Stone has gotten good marks for finding KMJ, Tate, and Wood on great deals so I'm optimistic with him in the draft, including the later round or teen picks we may have this year.

So whats messed up has already been messed up, I don't think Tilman can mess it up, I think now were at the bottom of the league, we have young players, we can only keep going up. Maybe we rebuild next year, probably, but we have our pick with no pressure so that helps a whole bunch for what should be a deep draft class. Then we'll find out about 3-6 years punt till we have to really spend if we start competing for something special.

 

Pretty much everyone is anti-Tilman, myself included.

I have criticized pretty much everyone, but some more than others.

Tilman is the owner, he's not going to fire himself. There's a line of complaining than can be crossed.

Naturally, but there's a line.

My eyes are wide open, I just choose to have a more pragmatic attitude towards it.

Or maybe it's vice versa.... maybe those who have nothing nice to say need their own safe space.... maybe they need to share memes and youtube videos to express their journey of self discovery and self reflection....

If you choose to be a Rockets fan then you are choosing to put your fandom in the hands of Tilman. It's the unfortunate truth. Personally, I'm going to mark a few potential games next season to drive from Austin to Houston since Covid kept me away this season.

 

I've still gone to games, I will still goto games. I'm not boycotting the rockets. I don't sit during the game and stare at tillman and feel sad. I watch teh basketball, i cheer on the rockets. But most of my post are literally just his own quotes contradicting himself, his recent one where he did say the right thing about hte rebuild he also once again added a lie in the bottom about how morey went all in-and he supported it.

Likewise theres been times I'm looking at westbrook, why would you do that?! or MDA, what kind of rotation is this? Or Harden for whatever...its never made me 'miserable' or not love the rockets, I don't get why its a one or other. ITs quite easy for me to be objective and still know what i'm here for

Yet I've many times wrote over how optimistic I am about stone's ability to find underrated talent, about how that young talenti s looking like it can be special, that if not this year next year we are in good draft shape.

How is that too much cynicism ? That part I don't underestand. As mentioned you've critisized harden, were you not being pragmatic saying you are choosing to be a rockets fans, don't complain, say go rockets shut up and watch the show.

I get you want the best for them thats why I didn't mean to come off personal, just those videos were sort of funny, but in my opinion I guess the diffference is I'm being pragmatic. I see it when he lies. it doesnt affect or change my believe in the rockets, I'm not sure anything will at this point, but they aren't paying me to be a cheerleader and smile like nothign is wrong, I'm paying them, least I can do is have some agency to call out an owner lying to the fanbase over and over again, that ain't right. He is a huge PR guy, hes on a reality show, his Q rating, likeability rating for someone who volunteers to goto the press, for someone who wnats to be in the press matters. Theres a reason why China, India, israel, Saudi sand even celbes spend a ton, ton of money for somehting as seemingly as frivolous as reddit or online posting trolls, bc now the big ad guys and new measurements take it all into account. So yes no one post is going to change the direction, but if the general information is spared, if the public relations takes a hint, and hes not like Dolan. Dolan doesn't goto the public or do want to be a celebrity, tilman and maybe Cuban do so their perception matters more when you want to be in the public arena, when it matters that your picture is out there and CNBC will do weekly shows and maybe someone will take time to pick up Billion dollar buyer again.

Even if it doesnt, I really thought this was the discourse to do that. In know way did I want to ruin yours or other rockets fans experience and I'm newer to this than you are, but I've knwon of the legend of Clutchfans and have been around for a while, I'd happily see myself out in that way and some of my favorite runs are when we talk in depth about the rockets good bad, leave it all. We all feel a part of this somehow even if we're not decision makers. To say I have no control so just hope for the best then that may stifle half the threats, what do we do with Kelly? I'm not a decision maker, hopefully my owner is benevolent...How was the harden trade? I don't have control, I trust our dear leader...take my money. How was the oladipo trade? Are you not loyal, just shut up and buy an avery bradley journey or see yourself out if you're not a true fan bc you have no control...yada yada

So that part is a bit confusing how that sticks, especially in a board of discussion to stifle any contradiction as disloyal, negative, or miserable, especially if theres a sincere effort to use facts rather than opinion. So No, I'm not 'anti-tilman" I obectively think hes done a terrible job, which would be a whole lot more forgiving to be honest if he shut up and listened rather than lied and pointed fingers...that holds true in any situation in life, don't you think? But Why am I believing in reform? As you said, rockets are in his hand, bar something spectacular he isn't going anywhere. So my hope is he catches wind of his unpopularity, is able to a djust for our next window when we do need to spend and and I would LOVE to never post about an owner of the nba ever aagain, no tean wants to discuss the owner...we don't tune in for him...we may snicker when we see his murals, but by most accounts if he just paid when he needed to, or even when things went wrong didn't try to set up a PR avalanche to make himself look like a good actor and victim, even les got away with a lot because he stayed quiet because do any of us really give a damn about tilman. The most an owner can offer or most valuable thing in this nba is finances, not 'tilmanisms' and 'killer culture', I'd imagine paul felt that way too.

But if I overstepped, not my intention to mess up the board for ya if I read the culture of it wrong and like I said, you've been around longer, I'll happily seemyself out and even if so, i don't think any of us are quitting the rockets, but was just looking for a good place to dig deep on all things rockets in a slow year as @don grahamleone mentioned, this year is a bit odd for everyone not getting the same experience we are used to

 

Whats the right way? lol Name the last player we drafted top 5? Rockets have been treading mediocrity trying to rebuild on the fly and failed expectations yet you guys are nervous about rebuilding the right way by bottoming out. Completely makes sense.(sarcasm) Contracts and personalities are easier to manage this way but.....*carry on* I honestly don't get why 69 percent of people are even fans if they hate management. It's likely not ever going to change.

 

They've won the same thing we did when Harden was here.....big fat nothing.

 

Only if you speak it into existence lol

 

yall casuals and your rings culture are crazy

 

Thanks, Batman. I will always remain a Rocket fan, but your post puts things in troubling perspective.

 

We are in good shape, IMO. We are in a winning spot with or without the top 4 picks. We pull backcourt help with the top pick to pair with Porter. If the top pick doesn’t happen, Butler or Springer pair well. Then go big the other two picks Garuba, Sharpe, Jones or Brown.
Sign Olynyk to play with the rookies.
Trade Wood & Gordon for good return.
Wall is just hangs around with injuries.
We are just year away from being reverent again.

 

I tend to think even with a successful rebuild inside of 3 to 4 years where the Rockets are competitive again in the playoffs, it would still yield a sour outcome for fans. If a rebuild is successful with rookie contracts, do you think Tillman would be the type to pay those same players once their rookie contracts expire or just use them as assets to remain under the luxury tax? Lets assume a successful rebuild gets the Rockets the 4-6 seed for the next 5 to 10 years, ala the Jazz. The Rockets are competitive enough to get into the playoffs but compared to the big dogs, they're first or second round fodder. A playoff roster, but not necessarily a championship roster. We all saw what Tillman did and didn't do with a potential championship roster. What do you think he'd do with a merely competitive playoff roster? You think he'd go over the luxury tax for them? Doubtful. But then again if he did go over the luxury tax for an okay-ish playoff team, is that even a good idea either? It'd still be an inferior product to the one he inherited when Harden and CP3 were still on the Rockets.

 

fundamentals? you think offensive skills are not fundamentals?

 

I'm sorry, could you make your question more of an honest question and less of a cherry pick? I'm not sure how to respond to it other than with sarcasm.

 

Look at Tilman's history. He doesn't buy things and make them better. He buys things to try and make more money off them. Make the most off the least you can offer.

His idea of success will be stay below the LT and make the playoffs. Perpetual 14th-18th picks. As long as he can sell tickets to corporations, get money back from staying below the LT, league deals, media deals, etc - he's going to lock in.

What he will NEVER do is lose money on this. He can't afford to. He's a poor rich man. He has to keep the grift going because he's got a LOT of debt to cover.

 

What’s “the right way?”

I trust that they will try and win as soon as possible, and to me, that’s the right way. Whether it’s trying to get established stars when available, or strictly through the draft, I expect the goal to be the same — limit the bad years to as few as possible.

and when we are competitive again, I expect TF to spend money when good players are available and (important to consider) WANT to come here.

I feel too many of us look at a lack of a trade or signing and think that it was simply money and nothing to do with the player not wanting to come here or preferring a different team, location, style of play.

I dont agree with the spend as much as you can no matter what, because that reduces flexibility and drains resources that could be needed down the line when the RIGHT player is available.

my prediction is if we win the draft and whoever we get is a legit star we will be competitive again in 2 years. The biggest obstacle is Walls contract. He doesn’t contribute enough for that salary. I’m not worried about Gordon’s. I think he provides a lot, when healthy.

 

If there's such a thing, it's only because Tilman himself has given ample reason for Rockets fans to question his ability to ever be owner of a championship team.

 

OF Course !!!!!! I do believe in the two men who are running the Management & Coaching the Houston Rockets.
For I am most impressed with what they have done. Its just a beginning . The Rockets needed a change in its culture
after the Harden Period. I see that in two seasons more we will be going for a Championship, especially if we get our first pick
in the Draft.Remember that we had so many players not playing, especially in the second half of the past season, possibly
because of injury or the coach wanted to coach the younger players. I look forward to the upcoming season.Yetti

 

No question we gave lots of talent and only going to get more in the draft