Haha I'd love to be, clearly. But my 6th grade grammar skills don't seem to be doing so well for the publications. So now I just moonlight as a reclining chair critic/pseudo GM on ClutchFans. You'll have to bear with me to translate some of verbal diarrhea post, but at this point of seeing so much misinformation I'm well trained in finding quotes and facts that seem to contradict some of the narratives posted on here. Plus, rockets are at an all time low for this season, I'm pretty damn lucky to have replaced grabbing a bear at half time or at the bar and talking nonsense junk with fellow Rockets fans with doing the same on CF during this time.
This is getting too long and is already history. All I am trying to say is that some posters here find it convenient to put everything wrong with the Rockets on Tilman. The logic is this: since we all know that Tilman is the big baddie, you don't have to look anywhere else to say it's his fault. Harden fans and Morey fans love this exit valve to dismiss any criticism against their man. About the Westbrook trade, these are the facts that everybody can agree: 1. Westbrook is NOT a Morey type player. We can safely assume that Morey would put up some resistance when this trade idea was brought to the front. 2. Tilman wanted Paul out because he didn't think Paul was worth that fat contract. That's actually a correct observation. But Tilman had no idea that Westbrook had the same contract and would not help the Rockets any better than Paul would. Tilman being himself, he probably would not shut up and listen to Morey on basketball matters. 3. Harden had some problem getting along with Paul. He preferred playing with Westbrook. The things that we are not certain are: 1. How much Harden wanted the trade. Those who want to minimize blame on Harden believe that he played a small role on it. However, some comments from Clutch (don't remember if it was tweets or podcast) that Harden had a significant role in pushing it through. I lean on trusting Clutch's assessment, but can't say for sure. I don't think anyone on this board can say for sure. 2. How much resistance did Morey put up. I imagine he would explain to Tilman initially why getting Westbrook was not a good idea. But he probably would just shut up when Tilman insisted. I also imagine he would run it by Harden about this. When Harden told him he wanted Westbrook, Morey probably would also explain to him why it wouldn't help the team. Personally, I believe the conversations between Morey and Harden would be the key to the end result. If Morey could convince Harden that it was a bad idea, Tilman probably could not have been able to force it. What we don't know is how strong Harden pushed it and how strong Morey pushed back. The aftermath was the disastrous playoffs performance by Westbrook. MDA wanted out. Morey wanted out. Westbrook wanted out. Harden wanted out. Now I am going to shut up (but can't promise I'll listen).
I really can't believe that people here are defending Tilman. He's an absolute disaster. We are absolutely screwed for the foreseeable future.
I don't think I've heard a viable defense yet. Most of it is just don't fully blame him and Harden and Morey did it too or didn't do enough to save tillman from his arrogant, lack of self awareness, delusional confidence rather than any proper defense. Especially helps when tillman often takes to the press to brag/confess about putting through trades, lying that we got under the tax by accident(we included a first round pick accidentally?), Often contradicts himself, was put on blast even on ESPN for volunteering to goto the press in 2019 for MDA's extension and lying about it, so on and so forth. He wants to be the face and be a celebrity, he just isn't very charismatic or honest in how he speaks and constantly has put his foot in his mouth and chased away anyone that has experience enough in this league to tell him to shut up and listen. I wonder if those few know tillman personally or are related or friends, because its hard to put so much energy to the overwhelming evidence of several moves and then point to one trade and one possibility that the other actors should've done more to stop tilllmans ideas. I would almost understand if it was a personal relationship so then it makes sense, maybe its just internet contrarians, or new age children who feel this should be a space for positivity and kindness safe space kind of thing, it baffles me, but in any case the defense is very, very thin in facts. Hope tillman does better. Hope he sells the team so he can get his finances in order or whatever is the issue or just his management philosophy, but quit bringing down the Rockets. Owners are replaceable. I was happy to say good riddance to Les, and the grass wasn't greener on the otherside. Happy to say good riddance to Tilly too. Ownership shouldn't be the front of the conversation and houston now has the shame of sharing that honor with the knicks(who at least spend money), Suns/sarver, Sterling Clippers anytime you talk about the owner/teams. That drop off the cliff happened real fast.
Most people now recognize names of middle management more than the names of players on our roster. That sums up this year as a Rockets' fan.
Thats true, our team is full of journeymen, guys in the dleague. I like a lot of them, but we may be teh only franchise that our CEO had more name recognition than our Rookie GM, many of our players this year. Basically no one left in our franchise who has enough clout, history, experience to tell TF to Shut up and Listen. He ran out every single one of those people from CEO, GM, Assistant GM, Coach, Associate head coach, several assistants, Two Stars, our top Vet. Now We got wheres waldo, Eric Gordon left and our rookie GM consults with our self proclaimed 'franchise' John Wall on moves. Houston is a great city, Rockets have a great history, Tilly boy just burned down the house to make it a mediocre landrys. Our best case scenerio just bc of a jackass owner is that we set back our franchise a few years, another cheap owner like Sarver just made the playoffs...after 11 years. Tilman Fertitta: “All my haters love to say, ‘Oh, his food sucks’ or whatever. But we’re consistent. The hot food’s hot, the cold food’s cold, the music’s right, the property’s clean. You don’t have burned-out lights, you don’t have cigarettes by the front door, you don’t have trash in the parking lots. You know what you’re going to get.” -Thats not trying to be the best. Thats good enough entertainment, skimping where you can, focusing on profits. Great business model for his restaurants, not for the F'n NBA. And then he has the used car salesman(no disrespect to used car salesman) of overselling every chance we can, moving an imaginary goal post of I'll spend when we guarantee the finals or a star. Stars are one of the easiest nba economic decisions, they bring in merchandise, sales, attention, the nba is marketed off them, they make their money back easily. The role players, margins, depth win titles but not headlines and tillman is a headline guy. Likewise, are any teams in a competitive nba guaranteed finals? The nets are going all in, they also have to deal with Milwaulkee and Sixers going all in. Lakers are all in, also clippers, Nuggets, Jazz, Suns, warriors, so on. Marc Gasol did not guarantee an NBa title, let alone 50 million at 34/35 years old. But Raptors took a swing and the margins of wins in playoffs are thing. The right bounce was made and thats how playoffs work. Go look back Mario Elie, KEnny Smith, Robert Horry, John Paxon, Steve Kerr, Derek Fisher, Sean Elliot, Avery Johnson, Eddie Johnson...guys who aren't worth any headlines or a heavy salary make the big plays/shots. Basketball is about cohesion. Cleveland paid Tristan,Jr, Klove way more than what they are worth. They got the chip and the nba is only getting more expensive as the par continues to rise. Is anyone in cleveland saying, yea but what abotu Dan Gilbert's pockets? I want to save him money. What about Toronto's owners, balmer, nets? Nah, thats why its a billionaires game. They raise prices on us as fans so much that the market allows all we get is the emotional allegiance and goods of competing. Tilman has been an absolute embarassment, doesn't seem like he'll go anywhere bar a miracle so I hope he learns his lesson, but judging by his recent words he continues to pretend he went all in when 90 percent of our moves were cost cutting. We need to put up a billboard, Dollar Value Dolan, Or rockets deserve better to be nicer and more vague and let him know otherwise he'll continue to sell snakeoil to whoever will still eat out of his ass, shut up and listen. Rockets aren't about Harden, morey, Les, Tillman, this is our team. THe owner is the last thing we need to worry about. He could've been a local legend and saved later if he just shut up and listen. No ones complaining about GS building a culture and a winning mentality and saying man, Lacob isn't even a billionaire, lets save him money so he doesn't get embarassed with a smaller yacht in monaco this summer. This isn't the 90s 0r 2000s, its a billion game and our over leveraged owner is thus over his head and can't even talk straight.
When people are leaving, is it normal for them to explicitly state a random reason that played no factor in their decision? That seems odd. "Hey guys I am quitting, its not because I didn't get the big promotion, I want to focus on me"
That was a direct response to Ben Dubose's (@The Cat)question as to how he would respond to those who would tie his leaving to something having to do with ownership/Fertitta. It wasn't really random.
Oddly enogh, I saw ben dubose state in almost sarcastic terms to those saying we should've kept levert were being absurd citing his first few games after coming back from his tumor growth surgery! Well, @The Cat, Levert had flashes of potential because in his 2 playoff series which have much heightened game plans/defenses he averaged close to 21-6-5 and sure enough hes gone on that very same run now back to 21-6-5. For some reason they say levert would've gotten us in the play in, but then they said they chose oladpio bc 'he was better and an all star'. So he wouldn't? Let alone that oladipo with reports of miami and his mutual interest since before the season was an expiring, so we had our backs against the wall and a month or two timeline the second we traded for him. Levert has 2 years left and now we comfortably could've flipped him for a first and a whole lot of room to work on that while also being as equally as bad as we have been this year, not oladipo or levert is changing the lack of depth, experience in this roster for this year's outcome. Details can make a difference and its hard to understand why people jump loopholes to defend tillman or at least soften his blows at every level. After reading the chronicle call Patrick Fertita the most elgible bachelor and a few other articles talk about how tillman is involved at every detail of his business while also contradicting themselves saying he stays out of it, then the other contradiction of him bragging about pushing through deals, its almost like he may have a few media guys in his salary. Not accusing this specific guy and I'd imagine its not even unusual at this level of money and branding and I don't blame the tradeoff for access, but defending tilman is going to get harder and harder unless he eats some humble pie and learns the nba economics is not restaurant economics.
Sports journalism is a hard business and the fact that these guys have gotten to this level is absolutely respectable and its a grind more than ever., defending tilman is going to get harder and harder unless he eats some humble pie and learns the nba economics is not restaurant economics. Heck even ESpn and the big wigs not attached to him are understanding the frustration after years of lies that rockets fans want someone to be a real voice and continue to call this guy out rather than be his mouth piece, the market is there for that. We know he isn't going anywhere, I'm so wildly disappointed in his ownership at the same time I'm still rooting for him to figure it out because we're at the mercy of a benevolent owner. We need fan voices, media to amplify that to get clutch city back otherwise this guy has shown that he has shameless levels of lying and deflecting as much as he'll be allowed to.
If you're going to cite points, rebounds, and assists without any reference to efficiency or defense and act as if that means anything, you may as well have kept Russell Westbrook as your franchise player and built around him. LeVert isn't "flashes of potential." Dude, he's 26 years old, and he turns 27 in a couple months. Guys are what they are, at this age. No one is giving you a high 1st for LeVert, a free agent after next season. You can probably get a mid-to-late 1st, similar to the Portland pick that's likely coming in, but are you really going to act that's some franchise changing dynamic? (By the way, you wouldn't have Olynyk or his Bird rights, either.) Also, there was nothing "almost" sarcastic about it. It was/is total sarcasm. The idea that having Caris LeVert, or the hypothetical mid-to-late 1st that you could probably trade him for, in place of Oladipo/Olynyk would materially change the position this franchise is currently in is downright comical.
Also, to be clear, there's nothing personal against Caris LeVert. The sarcasm is against the absurd idea that getting him, or not getting him, has much of anything to do with the success or failure of the James Harden trade. That's the narrative that I was/am pushing back against. The bottom line with the Harden deal is that they viewed the liquidity of the Brooklyn pick package as superior to something centered around Ben Simmons and significantly fewer picks. (Also, they viewed the long-term outlook of the Philly picks as worse than Brooklyn.) Could they be wrong? Absolutely! But holy ****, let's at least talk about was the calculus actually was. It's about what they think they can do with those picks, either with who they draft or (more likely) what they trade them for. Either adding LeVert to the current team, or the draft pick in the 15-20 range that you could probably deal him for, is small potatoes in the grand scheme of what they're trying to do. There's no guarantee that they will succeed. It might fail, spectacularly. But if it does, taking Oladipo/Olynyk over LeVert won't be close to the primary reason. That was and is the point of the sarcasm. LeVert is a capable role player whose production is getting blown laughably out of proportion because folks are desperate to dunk on the Rockets for anything and everything. There's a million things you can be critical of, regarding the Rockets, without trying to force that.
I don't agree with that. Especially in this nba we are seeing guy capable of developing more shots, being more efficient later on, and more so different systems, opportunities, cohesiveness and spacing with teammates change around a lot. I get what you mean about levert, but the comparasion was between our two options of oladipo and levert. Neither of them were an ideal choice, but obviously we weren't in ideal circumstances. But one provided us with room and time, not just being younger, but having a contract that doesn't put our back against the wall. Some players can show different things with the opportunity and thats what I meant abotu LEvert. When he had 2 playoff series consistently showing himself as a force and now as he has hit his groove in indiana, he's shown more of the same. On oppose to oladipo who had better years, but also is another good example, he had his big jump at 25 after two seperate teams. The opportunity was different as well as him learning to prepare and among other things that we haven't quite measured. Let alone they both have injury issues, but the swirls around oladipo not just being interested in miami, but the fact they had cap room or possible cap room this summer to make that happen we essentially had 1-2 months with our backs against the wall to make it happen. We could not offer a better contract then he was in the range of getting in the free market, almost no incentive for him to extend and thus we ended it what we had. Those details matter in terms of having an extra mid/1st. Depending on the draft and depth, history has shown its not an exact science and no one has cracked the code. We have our top MVPs this year from the 2nd round, lottery, and mid teens. It certainly gives us a chance and opportunity and his value is increasing. So if these moves are not franchise changing home runs, then its absurd and 'sarcastic' to even just question our managements decision? Home runs are few and far between, we've been lucky and I give the FO a lot of credit for shooting our shot in KPJ and then before that morey snagging harden. But surrounding depth and the non headliners which you write off as franchise changing all make the marginal changes that can make a difference for us short/long term, it gives us more of a shot and I certainly wouldn't write it off as absurd and ridiculous in that way. IMO, thats just nba twitter mentality of talking in absolutes. Lets see what we do with Olynk's bird rights. He's been a pleasant surprise in the deflating of our team. That said, Rockets didn't use the bird rights of Ariza of Shumpert during times we were in our contention window with a generational talent. So now either we learned our lesson, but also now is a time when no one blames cost savings because our franchise is in a different place. With wall and gordon still on the books, depending on howwe are compared to cap floor lets see what we offer him, what he gets in the free agency, and if he has incentive to help us with a sign and trade or continue doing what hes doing now. Maybe someone comparable after a great 6th man performance, former rocket montrez harrel, who ended up going to a contender for the mid level. EVery year the market is different, but like you said is it some franchise changing thing? I'd rather have levert at 26 tradeable than kelly olynk at 30 in s&t. I'm baffled at some of our moves the past few years, but tone so far as a rookie gm enigma has had some great finds with Tate, a personal favorite who can fit any situation, KPJ giving me that loving feeling with his step back and 50 piece at his age, Wood a hungry guy who coincidentally to your point just like oladipo took a big turn at 25 after given a new opportunity and a new role, I guess that one/2 years to you is a death sentence for a player being able to learn ,grow, and also have a new coach give new rope which can change the possibility? Even if thats the case, its hard to argue that we wouldn't have our backs against the wall with an expiring and had more room to make changes than with levert. Westbrook wanted out. He's obviously a frustratingly stubborn volatile player, maybe a massive part we lost the playoff series bc an even 80 percent of westbrook is useless, but he is a floor raiser unlike many in this league and he is willing his team in DC after a terrible start into the playoffs. He helped carry us during his one season a year after a slow start, injury, and terrible finish. But he wanted out, we had no direction but mediocrity to go with him and we got a first rounder out of it so I'm grateful, although arguable he may be able to have a team take a chance on him this summer with his recent play compared to Wall. Wall looked athletic and motivated, but also was on the bench most of the season just like he was for 2 straight years. But no one in Houston is playing for this year, maybe not even next. Thats what I don't understand, why it has to be all defense of the ownership/management rather than actual objective. Writing off a mid first saying its not a franchise changer, its absurd to argue, so on vs the FO made some solid moves given the chances, we might've dropped the ball with that trade. Likewise if you're optimistic about a S/T with KElly olnky, imagine a s/t with Jarret Allen on oppose to the late first rounder of MiL. Thats my point the frustrating part of 'nba twitter' talk is the polarization and gross simplification of choosing two sides and then dying on that hill about it. Nonetheless, I appreicate your response and I do enjoy you're writing and in any case. I've heard a lot of don't critisize or you're not a loyal fan, sadly that seems to be an overall trend elsewhere rather than I love the rockets, will always watch them and hope for them through good or bad, and being objective to me is just part of being an active fan rather than blindly being all dear leader or shut up and listen to whose in charge. I do think each brick matters and the line of following moves is impossible to understand so Its a fair criticism, albeit not a home run game changing one, but if we look back at the little trades we've made for Paul, For HArden. Role players that we'ren't headliners were all a aprt of those trades, so I don't write it off. Overall, I'm optimistic about Stone and i Like silas, I love the spirit of the young guys, and its a hard cliff to fall out the last few years, but we are not in a bad position going forth. June 15 is our biggest day of the year. Go Rockets!
You're moving the goalposts some. I'm not saying you can't make an argument for LeVert, or Jarrett Allen. You absolutely can. The point is to keep it within reason. Here's one example of the reason for the sarcasm: If you want to argue within the appropriate context, i.e. LeVert or the mid-to-late 1st and Allen relative to Olynyk and the Milwaukee pick, we can absolutely have that discussion. And I can't tell you 100% that they made the right decision! It's a legit debate. What isn't a legit debate is the Twitter framework of making Caris freakin' LeVert a total referendum on the James Harden trade. That is what I'm being sarcastic about. I agree there's more nuance to it and things you can legitimately wonder about, but Twitter and 280 characters isn't the ideal format for that.
I get that, but what I'm saying is history has shown the moves that have been game changing for us included the harden trade(Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, two first round picks ) and Chris paul ( Beverley, Lou Williams, Montrezl Harrell, and Sam Dekker to the Clippers, along with a first-round pick in the 2018 NBA Draft.) You can argue that almost every single piece that we gave for those stars weren't game changers in any regard. But they became vital pieces and we also had the flexibility of them being on contract to eventually strike when an unexpected star became available. Thats part of it. Levert gives us the flexiblity with more years to simply give us that time and the market time to not have our backs against the wall . Oladipo, even if we disregard the reports constantly of his and miami's mutual interest, miamis ability to clear cap space in a couple months anyways to get him without a heavy roster cost, and the fact that his contract is up so we have very little leverage and our backs are against the wall is one major part. Player on player, I'd rate oladipo higher, but then oladipo is coming off a couple tough years of injury, is older, an expiring and so by your measurement he has absolute no potential since you said he's shown who he is already. Levert, in terms of useage rate has shown volatility from being a border line all star appearance to a role player. Not many role players have gone two playoff series producing what he did, also showing ability to compete in the clutch time and be a playmaker when the defense is at its absolute highest and the scouting reports are more focused and detailed come playoff time. He's showing more of that now as hes finding the groove in indiana, and the big factor is just the contract and that mid level is is probably his minimum value to trade, as shown above he gives us room and as the nba changes so fast, to be the potential of much more should something arise. We had none of that with oladipo. And its more hopeful with less potential with Kelly Olnky as much as I've enjoyed his play this year. Even more so with Allen. We would've had two months to trade allen and he would've commanded more than a 25-30 pick, furthermore as you cited sign and trade, majority of the league would value Allen at his age and ability more so than Kelly. As far as simmons, depending on the picks and yes including maxey/Thybulle are all pieces that we can make something out of. I agree that simmons would raise us enough out of the lotterey which wouldn't be a great timeline to rebuild unless we had hope of surrounding him with talent very soon. I also believe we haven't seen Simmons maximize his potential. Joel Embiid is their best player, their most efficient route to wins is to play inside out. I'd imagine simmons with a 4 out or one roller we'd see a different beast. With that noted, I still wouldn't want him even though i'd consider him the best player outside of all the options we had reported because of the timeline and our abillity to surround his talents with the cohesion to make something work. We're rebuilding entirely here. Kendrick perkins is not someone I consider a serious reporter or evaluator of the game and much of that show seems soley for some binary points of view for entertainment,tribalism. Frankly they are damn good at it and fans can eat it up when you look for it. For guys with yourself and some locals, I usually just read and get more intelligent leveled analysis as per youre point which is why I didn't agree with the simplifications with levert, westbrook so on. But not meant as a slight at all, You're one o the rockets reporters I really enjoy and take note and being on CF and having dialogue on aside from short form, sensation of twitter is a major plus. Appreciate it There are many parts to building a foundation, none of it in the nba is an exact science, just several theories. Each piece counts and the chain can lead to other elements. In a year where our best hope is developing youngsters and hitting the lottery, we have a lot of time and room as fans to wonder whats going on and ask the whys and hows when we have had an owner who seemed to lie whenever he gets the chance. He's much more outspoken and in your face than most of the owners and I was surprised when I found so many contradictory statements, yet by some miracle he's here to stay and the most an owner has to offer as nba economics, revenue continue to just get more expensive to field a contender is finances. The past 3 years of losing so many respected front office, staff, even players is pretty unique for a franchise and as fans who invest our time, money , and energy and get nothing in return but entertainment for our emotional connection to the Rockets which is unlike many other markets/businesses, hence the whole entire board and community here, it is fair to ask questions, to look at details in an honest way while hoping for the best for our team and our city. I get some of the sarcasm is a part of being on twitter, entertaining, or just talking junk too and I agree with you its a legit debate on those pieces for Allen/Levert, etc while agreeing that the flexiblity of picks and betting that brooklyn will falter or we can consolidate those picks for a trade sooner or later is the meat of it, history shows the other details matter even before we see it coming, and when we give up such a massive part of our franchise in a generational player and have a year as the worst team in the entire nba, we have a lot more time until the draft to discuss how and why. GoRockets
It's not some, it's nearly all of it. Your points are quite valid, there are absolutely legit questions. Just wanted to explain the Twitter context, since you brought that angle up, that's all. I agree that Perk isn't a serious reporter, but unfortunately he does have a significant platform and can drive a narrative. I felt compelled to use the platform that I have (extremely limited, by comparison, but still) to counter that. The rest of it, let's pick this up in a couple months. Lot of hypotheticals at this particular moment with regards to what Allen goes for/to in FA, what happens with Olynyk, etc. I promise I'm not being a fanboy, it's absolutely possible that it backfires on Stone, and I'll acknowledge if it does. I just want to let it play out a bit.
