Shaq may not have equal competition now, but he has faired well against Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing, all in their primes when Shaq was just in his first few seasons. I think some of you guys forget he's been in the league for thirteen years so he has faced some greats in their prime and he was better than Ewing and Robinson in those match-ups and the match-up with Hakeem was awash. Its like Lance said on the 610AM morning show just last week, a myth has persisted since the 95 Finals that Hakeem destroyed Shaq when their numbers were really canceled out by each other and the real difference was in the teamates.
Hakeem outplayed Shaq in the 95 playoffs. That's simply indisputable. Particularly in the closing moments of the games, Hakeem came up with huge clutch plays and Shaq did not. The notion that Hakeem "dominated" Shaq in that series might be a myth indeed. But the idea that it was a wash or that they played to a draw is simply ridiculous. Shaq admitted so himself.
MJ is the most overrated player...EVER. Ask me to choose a guard, and I'd pick Magic every day of the week. Hakeem is the greatest center I've ever seen. And honestly, I'm not sure it's even close. His range...his ability to play inside and outside...and his ability to literally shut down the lane for an entire team...those things made him ridiculously good when he was at his best. Quadruple-doubles?? Are you kidding? I'm not sure that any one player has done more with less around him than Hakeem did in 1993 and 1994.
You must not have seen the '95 finals. Shaq got absolutely, completely, unequivocably SCHOOLED by Dream. If all you look at is the numbers, then they canceled each other out, but Dream was the model leader, drew double teams, caused the defense to help, and then kicked the ball out for open jumpers. There is more to basketball than individual numbers. Want proof? Wilt's numbers DESTROYED Russell's, but Russell got 11 rings to Wilt's 2. Who was better? For my money, it was BR.
I'm often amazed by how little respect is given to the players of the 50's and 60's....they are cast as second class because the majority of fans today weren't born, didn't see them play and consider their accomplishments unworthy of recognition. There are many factors which impacted the players of that era which are all too easily ignored... * They lived in an era when doctors openly touted the benefits of smoking cigarettes. * They rode on commercial flights on propeller driven planes. * There weren't alot of expansion teams watering down the talent level. * No one put them in camps at the age of 5 or gave them million $ shoe contracts as teenagers. * Racial discrimination was much higher...overt instead of covert. * Advances in strength training and endurance techniques have advanced astronomically with the computer and technology revolution....which they missed by 20-30 years. * Places like the old Boston Garden weren't air-conditioned and they turned on the heat sparringly to not melt the ice below the court. So the next time your tempted to say something like "Dream could average 50 and 30"...just try to imagine what he would be subjected to and what technological advancements he would have not had access to. Case in point. About ten years ago I tore a tendon in my right hand after hitting it on a rim. A similar injury to what Hakeem had if you'll recall the season he played with two right hand fingers taped together. We were both operated upon by the same great doctor who basically fillet'd our fingers and reattached the tendon to the tip of the finger. This could have easily been career ending in the 50's or 60's.
The greatest center to ever play the game was, without a doubt, Charles Jones. How can you guys even compare anyone else to him? He won championships, and played till he was 102 (or at least he looked it)... How many great centers ever win a championship, and then, just to prove how great and humble they are, take their game to the CBA where they can work out the little things like hugging, and fouling, and taking the game down to a plodding pace? Then, after mastering these techniques, he came back to the NBA, and was so dominate that his team won two championships. Heck, he even made that Hakeem guy look like a decent player. Yea, Russell/Wilt/Sikma/Malone may have been good, but CJ was totally dominate. HE could wax the floor with any of them, and still make it in time to collect his social security check...
MJ overrated? You got to be kidding me?! Magic was no doubt a great player, but he cannot take over a game like MJ. Mj was a complete player. He was a great offensive and defense player. Not to mention he made players around him better. He won 6 titles for a reason!
Nobody did it like Magic. Nobody made players around him better like Magic. From the moment he stepped in the league, he was Showtime. And Showtime wasn't about him jacking up 30 shots a night...it was about winning...bringing other players' games to a whole different level. A 6'9" point guard. I'd take that guy every day of the week and twice on Sunday. MJ was awesome...and he was a social phenomenon. He had a great smile and hit HUGE shots. A great player to be sure. Had an incredible social impact on the game. But there are players that can do what he did, even if just to a lesser degree. No one did or has done since what Magic did. No one. Absolutely unique. I'm not a big believer in the greatness of MJ and/or the Bulls of the 90's...a lot of that has to do with the relative competition in the NBA at the time compared to the 80's.
I watched the 95 Finals, and if Nick Anderson makes one out of three free throws at the end of regulation in Game 1, that's a completely different series, and at the same time if Kenny Smith doesn't hit a game tying shot, its a different series, and if Clyde doesn't tip in Dream's miss at the end of OT, it's a completely different series, notice how Dream's teamates made the difference. Again, its a myth that Dream SCHOOLED Shaq. They canceled each other out, Shaq was just as unstoppable.
PG: I understand where you're coming from, but I think andy's point is also valid. In addition to the above quoted sentence, Dream was capable of guarding Shaq by himself and if you really watch those games, you see how smart Dream was. Typically during the first half Penny would get by somebody and go in for a dunk. It would infuriate me because Dream would be in a position to challenge the drive but he didn't. Then I figured out he didn't want to pick up early fouls or allow Shaq a nice little gift dunk. By crunch time, Penny wasn't making those drives unchallenged and Dream was much more aggressive on Shaq then in the first half. I've never looked at the stats by quarter, but my suspicion is Shaq would win the first half but Dream would win the second.
Okay, I'll concede that Dream finished games stronger that series. And Dream was definitely a better weakside defender. on the other debate, I don't know if Jordan was overrated, but if I had to build a team from scratch around one of them in their prime, it would definitely be Magic. He's the consumate basketball player who could do anything.
MJ went through the Lakers, and got pass the Pistons. Also, remember Magic had the luxury of playing along side some great players like Kareem and Worthy. Magic did make players around him better like no other, but no one can dominate a game on BOTH ends of the court like MJ, and that is what seperated MJ from the rest. Btw..Jordan played in an era that included the most stars ever.
Jordan played in an era where it took far less to win rings than it did in eras past. Even he lamented the loss of Magic because,as he said, "who am i going to get to beat now?" Magic played all 5 positions...at key points...there may be another MJ. There will not be another Magic. I'm with pgabriel. If you're starting a league from scratch...and you can take any player...you take Magic...because he makes everyone else better and creates mismatches like a mother.
first let me get into the magic jordan discusion. Jordan was unbelievable he was so clutch. Johnson was also a freak. it was great how he played center in game 6 of the finals of his rookie year, and he played great. the problem is that i didn't get to see many games of magic, i started watching basketbal after he retired for the first time. So i cannot compaire them, i just know jordan was great, whenever a game was close and jordan was in the game i knew who would win. As for olajuwon he was the best center ever. maybe russel or wilt. but i never saw them play so i can't say hakeem is better or les good. i can give my opinion on the Shaq versus hakeem. Hakeem was much better, alot of people forgot how good hakeem was. Like someone has said, he was in the top 10 in steals and blocks for all time. Steals he was a center shaq was also very good, just not as good as hakeem was. Shaq is not near the defensive player Hakeem was.
