Why do people think J. O'Neal is so good? Dominant force in the East? Maybe. MVP candidate?? I think not. A lot of people feel, that if J. O'Neal can be listed as a Center, then he is the second best center to S. O'Neal, and Yao Ming would come a distant third. Why is that? I mean I don't have any illusions of how good Yao Ming is. Well maybe only a few. But I don't really contend that J. O'Neal right now is better than Yao. (I could, but it'd be a hard case) Okay, here are the reasons why J. O'Neal is good. 1. Reminds me of KG lite. Back to the basket moves, that smooth turnaround fadeaway. Face to the basket moves, has that quick first step. 15 footer. 2. Big dunker. Power rebounder. 3. Blocks tons of shots, in the East. Here are the reasons why I don't think he belongs in the patheon of big men superstars alongside Shaq, Duncan, KG, etc. 1. Shoots 43%. That's a guard number. And shoots plenty of times to get 2 ppg more than Yao. 2. Minutes, rebounds, and ppg, are actually down from last year. 3. He's no KG. I mean you can't even compare. That said. Why do so many people think he's taken a quantum leap this year, vaulting himself into superstar, MVP status? I just don't get it.
He is the best player on the best team in the East. Behind Duncan and KG he might be the next best forward in the NBA. He isnt on their level yet but he is improving.
"That said. Why do so many people think he's taken a quantum leap this year, vaulting himself into superstar, MVP status? I just don't get it." his team's success. the stats and individual type honors are great but all else must bow to, Leastern conf. or no, the best regurlar season record this year. btw, the MVP award is supposedly given to the most valuable player for his team. so matching skill for skill, your Yao Ming comparison, isn't relevant for MVP type status.
I understand what you're trying to say. NBA MVPs have traditionally come from top tier teams. However, I don't think it should just blindly go to the best player on the best team, irregardless of stats, which no matter how people can discount it, is a positive indicator of performance. And luckily it didn't this year. But still, what bothers me is that when a guy takes a 5% drop in FG percentage, goes down in minutes played, PPG, and RPG, you wouldn't expect people to think that he's taken the next step right? Is he doing more for his team this year than last year? I've seen some games and there's no change. I don't know why he is getting a lot of hype. anyway, i have nothing against him as a player, but this question has always just puzzled me. btw... i don't really understand the Yao Ming reference in your post. what are you trying say? all i was trying to say is that his stats are not much better than Yao's, who is, in no sense of the word, an MVP candidate this year. as for value, it can be argued that Yao is ever bit as valuable to the Rockets are J. O'Neal is to the Pacers.
I agree that MVP, by definition, should be about the player's value to his team, not how good a player he is. But it is really hard to measure that, and is plenty subjective. So it all comes down to the combination of stats and team records. That said, I agree that O'Neal's impact for his team is in no way comparable to Duncan's or KG's to their respective teams.
i guess the question is: Is J. O'Neal doing more for his team this year than last year? If not then why has his stock risen so much?
"it can be argued that Yao is ever bit as valuable to the Rockets are J. O'Neal is to the Pacers." and the Pacers superior record, despite Yao's FG%, makes Oneal a more attractive candidate. i agree with Easy, the MVP thing is plenty subjective. but KG did rule this year!
Yes, he is extremely overrated. 43% is terrible, especially for the East. If I needed a big play at the end of a game, he'd be way down there on the list of guys who I'd want to have the ball.
I still think he's an excellent player. A dip in FG% one year is supposed to tarnish everything else he's done in his career? As for being considered an MVP, it's because he was on the best team in the east. That doesn't mean he deserves to be considered an MVP, but it EXPLAINS why he was. I have a question though, after Shaq, Duncan, and KG, who is the etc? Besides Dirk, who else is there? If the Pantheon is Shaq, Duncan, KG etc., well I would argue Jermaine is definately one of the etc. And why compare him to yao, did somebody say Jermaine was better than Yao in some other thread? I just don't get the nitpicking of O'neal.
I guess the next time we agree on something about basketball will be the first. I'm discrediting everything else he's done in his career? Tell me of that illustrious career you speak of. The Yao comparison is used because Yao doesn't belong in that top tier, and the difference between him and O'Neal isn't significant. Don't tell me you haven't read a whole bunch of posts during the season comparing Yao to J. O'Neal. I guess I couldn't come up with any more superstar big men, so there is no etc. I wouldn't really argue that Dirk belongs up there either. I just argue that J. O'Neal is not a true superstar like those three and shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath. He's in the Marion, Brand, Dirk maybe, J. O'Neal tier. My question is this: What has J. O'Neal done for his team this year that he hasn't done last year? My answer is nothing. Then what explains the jump in his status this year as opposed to last year? Can you answer that?
I think I heard that too Smeg. But it's only like 1 ppg better. Yip, I thought I made it perfectly clear that the reason his status has jumped was because of the Pacer's record and that I don't think he deserves MVP status. The thread question was "is J O'neal overrated?" If you mean he's overrated for being an MVP candidate, then yes. And if you limit the "pantheon to Duncan, KG, and Shaq," then there really isn't room for anybody else now, is there. Shaq is on the way down though and KG and Duncan haven't really improved, actually, Duncan had slight dips while KG improved slightly. Jermaine is 2 years younger than KG and Duncan, he still has time to improve and gain experience.
for me MVP type contending players are based on playoff success JO is a great player and for me in tier of players below those in the MVP type tier he might get their though.. a big playoff series and getting the Pacers to to the Finals and booming would be a great start
He won more games and without the help of Brad Miller down low. Of course his stats will go down when Brad Miller is not there to draw the double teams away.
Very good point. Pacer had a very good record against West, also. I'm wondering also KG would be this good without Cassell and Sprewell. I'm from NJ, I'm cheering any east team against west, unless they are against the Rockets.
He became a much better defensive player. He could always block shots, but in the absence of Brad Miller he carries more of the load in interior defense. He became the team leader. People give credit to Rick Carlisle for settling Ron Artest down and making him an all-star, not a distraction. Jermaine also played a role in getting into Artest's head in preeason and pulling the team together, when people feared he would actually be a divisive influence due to the fact he was upset about the firing of coach/mentor/buddy Isiah Thomas. He also became more the focal point of the opponent's defense, without Brad Miller around. He admits to falling too much in love with his jumpshot (a jumper he didn't HAVE 2 years ago). That and a recurring knee sprain explain his lower percentage. He is the 3rd best forward in the league behind Garnett and Duncan. He is better than Nowitsky and Brand since he plays BOTH ends of the floor.
