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The economy

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Aug 18, 2019.

  1. subtomic

    subtomic Contributing Member
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    it’s not just the Cons who cling to the myth that Republican/conservative policy is best for the economy. Many moderates and even outright liberals still cling to this belief as well. When someone calls themselves “socially liberal but fiscally conservative,” that’s basically the tell.

    A lot of conservative revisionism has worked its way into the mainstream political consciousness, like the claim that the New Deal policies prolonged the Great Depression or even made it worse (although somewhat ironically, the best counter I’ve seen to this thinking was made by the founder of the Lincoln Project). Something happened to the Democratic Party in the late 70s and onwards that made it terrified to own its identity, history and success stories. We’re still dealing with that terror, which is why many of us find politicians like Bernie, AOC and Katie Porter so refreshing - they vocally champion the party’s history and success and look to build upon it. The evidence is really that apparent - Democrat economic and social policies have been great for the economy and Republican economic and social policies have been almost without exception complete and enormous failures.

    So I wonder how the Democrats can improve their messaging when half of them don’t even seem to want to believe it’s true.
     
    #1481 subtomic, Jan 31, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
  2. CCorn

    CCorn Member

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  3. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Now that you mention it, stagflation really spooked the Keynesians. No matter what policy they tried, nothing worked for years.

    Popular thought is to credit Reaganomics and Thatcherism on the rebound (plus Volker's aggressive stance against inflation) but it also helped that the Saudis started pouring billions into arms purchases and hundreds of billions into the market. That ultimately set us up for the 90s and 00s. Aramco didn't really dominate the oil market until the Kuwait war plus Iraq's sanctions...

    Who knows what Dems stand for. I certainly don't. Progressives are starting to rebel from neoliberal policies Clinton embedded into the party, but Americans are still favorable to deregulation that made utilities a private good and spiked the price of bottle water that comes from heavily subsidized tap water. Free trade is a mixed bag and many coastal libs acknowledge we should still go for it as long as we're the prime buyer

    It seems like political leanings gained can be quickly lost over the years. I mean I didn't understand what the competing ideologies were going on in the 80s as a kid and barely understood how Clinton's New Democrat was different from the old. By the time I was able to vote and work, platform issues like cap and trade policies shifted from one party onto the other.

    So the theories and wonkish details I finally began to understand had already changed. All that was left were myths and narratives. FDR brought us out of the Depression... Or Reagan beat communism by outspending them AND saved our economy.

    Contradictory claims at the time but hey... What happened happened, right?
     
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  4. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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  5. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  6. Outlier

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    Growing but still no job for me
     
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  7. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Bless u Bernie for mentioning facts beyond Trump.

    Republicans love spending on things they don't want to own.
     
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  8. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  9. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    The country's economy is doing fine. A massive influx of cash came into the US economy during the pandemic. An unusually high number of companies that own massive chunks of your economy multiplied their value during the pandemic. Yes your economy is down vs before, but way up vs the rest of the world's crash. An insane, incredible amount of new money is now going to US-centric companies (among others) mainly from online product and service delivery, which decimated the physical competitors in much of the superficially developed world. Those competitors ain't coming back anymore than bookstores are.

    The result of that is that the companies that influenced your economy are more powerful than ever (vs you) and are going to be the biggest POTENTIAL employers ever (like ever in human history). Remember when car companies started building massive factories and everyone left their farm to go work there? It's like that but you will be working from your smartphone, kind of like secretaries and auditors for AI. They're going to let you know where you can get a job soon, but it won't be as many jobs as you had before because automation is going to be rolled out faster under this cloak.

    So think of it as you're sitting in a waiting room with a ticket number from Facebook or something. Like a dignified handout. You're going to be taken care of like before - just enough for you to make it with some work, but not too much that you feel secure. You can get a little ahead by giving up more of your life and family, and then you get to talk about how others are lazy, uneducated or taking handouts.

    The big boys are busy buying up companies and real estate right now for peanuts, then they'll know where to employ you. They'll give it a cute name like SHARING economy (then who owns what the previous generation owned? lol). Give it till June 2021 when you have the presidential "look what I did better than the last guy" speech. Much of the jobs numbers will come back, what you can buy with the wage will be less livable and the red team will blame the blue team for it (or vice vesa if the roles are switched). If you're good with how things were and are in the top 70% performers, you'll be content.

    Bet on your billionaires that have relationships with your military or surveillance. They never lose. They shovel in tons of money every 6-10 years, and when they need a bump they will create a war. Don't listen to what they or politicians SAY. Just bet on them as if they are Darth Vader and there are no Jedis. It always works out, somehow. Everything the news talks about is peanuts compared to these numbers. Hell, all the economies ever are peanuts compared to these numbers that get moved around.

    In case you're still wondering how the economy can do well while everyone's standard of living drops, it's because it goes out from your taxes (100%), and it comes back in the hands of those hijacking you (100%) so the money always stays in America (or a colony with easy tax rules). Then they'll hire some of those who were fired at a fraction of the cost (using 50-60% of the hijacked taxes) while inflation does the rest of their work.

    It's really spectacular honestly. I don't believe in conspiracies where people get together and plan things, and there are lots of reasons these things happen, but the pattern is incredible to watch nonetheless. I knew this would happen, I was literally saving for this crisis. I did not know they'd figure out a new way to keep it going. Sweet.
     
    #1489 Mathloom, Feb 5, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
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  10. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  11. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Some good news...



    And some news that looks better than it is (ie the freeze in texas may have impacted the number of unemployment claims)...

     
  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    We should stop caring about gdp growth rates. It's what allowed the media to ignore the 40 year trend of average Americans being squeezed more and more.

    It doesn't reflect the health of the average American.
     
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  13. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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  14. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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  15. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I hope you find one soon.
     
  16. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I agree that GDP and the stock market are overly cited as proof of economic well being..... which for some reason is used as a measure of the overall satisfaction of the people in a country.

    I think GDP has relevance but it is one of a number of factors. The reality is that the satisfaction and prosperity is not always easy to read.
     
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  17. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  18. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  19. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Good news on retail and jobs fronts...





     
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  20. ryan_98

    ryan_98 Contributing Member
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    Too soon to celebrate and proclaim it's the roaring 20's again but the economy looks to be moving in the right direction. At least, recovering. The early numbers show the stimulus provided a short-term boost. Also, lower unemployment numbers are good to see.

    But, the labor participation rate hasn't recouped yet. It's at 61.5%. Yes, that's up from 60.2% in April of last year, so good sign; however, that's still far below the Mar-2011 (64.2%) and Mar-2001 (67.2%) all time highs.


    Still there are a few questions to be answered:

    How much are wages increasing?

    What form, if any, will continued direct payment stimulus take?

    What does inflation look like around the corner?


    https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-labor-force-participation-rate.htm
    https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
     

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