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Can Steph carry his own team thread.

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by jiggyfly, Dec 22, 2020.

  1. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    How about 1st round in 2016 vs rockets when curry was out due to injury?
     
  2. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    GSW didn't win a title in 2016.
     
  3. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    How does any of this refute with what people are saying about Steph, his having Green is showing the team has strength.

    Thanks for making my point.
     
  4. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Random thought just to get you guys' attention off of the wekko debate:
    How many of you have been posting on your phone under three layers of blankets with no electricity at home?
     
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  5. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Bad logic. You asked how the discussion had turned to Draymond Green. My explanation didn't support or refute your point.
     
  6. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    A lot lol.....
     
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  7. HardenVolumeOne

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    Curry has shot like crap since his wife made that Instagram post.
     
  8. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    What post?
     
  9. HardenVolumeOne

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    replying to @HP3

    She posed nude on social media like 5 days ago and got criticized by a ton of people
     
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  10. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Didn't know that. I don't blame him for not shooting well after that. LOL.
     
  11. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    It seems not even Warriors org believes curry can carry
    today you tank even with steph on your roster.. sucha p***y league
     
  12. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    Now you are nitpicking... see the context
     
  13. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Not nitpicking at all. Maybe you should read more carefully.
     
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  14. HardenVolumeOne

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    draymond would have been finals mvp in 2016 had they won that game 7 againist the cavs

     
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  15. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    man harden has no excuse to hide behind when he lost to draymond freaking green in the first round that year lololol
    curry goes down he doesnt capitalize, next year kawhi and parker go down and hes outplayed by johnatan simmons and 40 years ginobily lololol....
    2019 durant goes down and he( and cp3) still does nothing..you cant make this stuff up....
     
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  16. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    I almost forgot in 2013 westbrook goes down and reggie freaking jackson steps up and beat the rockets....series ended 4-2
    Durant got his BUT
    rockets were close in 2 key games they lost till the very end when harden choked by making several turnovers in a row just inexplicably running into corpse of freaking 39 old derrek fischer...

    it was weird at that time but i threw it away like just a weird anomaly.... now looking backward its a pattern...its his signature move to turn the ball over several times in a row...like he has the money on the other team winning somewhere

    how do you let 39 old men stop you time and again and beat you in a playoffs series and you are multiple MVP in your prime?

    Also until very recently I thought harden was just unlucky suffering injuries of teammates or running into more talented opponents but man look above and its a lot of breaks and injuries to key players of his opponents
     
  17. HewbieTrippin

    HewbieTrippin Member

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    Not sure how this became more about Draymond, but in reply to this post ... Draymond shot great that game (and at his best shooting that year I believe compared to now), but the cavs entire defensive scheme that game was to let draymond shoot open 3s versus giving klay and steph any hint at a clean look. You can see Lebron leaving draymond intentionally several times, with perhaps an added bonus of "resting" versus chasing the two shooters. Credit to draymond for making those shots in a game 7 but again, I don't think it gives a reason for him to be considered the best warrior in that series by any means, much less an mvp. Clearly he's getting those shots as a result of the cavs gameplan to minimize opportunities for klay and steph.

    And while we're talking about draymond and all the love he's getting on this thread, I think it's only fair to couple any discussion of his career with the success of steph. Literally almost three out of four of all his assists come from steph's shooting and moving off the ball. Not to mention that it's been a consistent pattern that when steph is not playing, draymond either gets himself thrown out of the game (like tonight and a handful of games last year), or takes games off due to some "injury," or produces what we saw of himself last year (nothing). He's a defensive ace, and I'll give him that but after seeing what he's like without steph, i just don't buy the "playmaking" hype he gets. Pair him with even other borderline allstars (especially ones that don't have great offball movement like d'angelo) and he'll be way less effective. What he's really great at is overall defensive (one-on-one, help, communication, leading it). But on offense, besides being able to throw lobs from getting the pocket pass from a double from curry, I don't buy the love shown. Very little evidence of any offensive success without curry specifically.

    To go back to the original point of this entire thread, I was almost starting to turn the corner on revising my belief or at least being open to the idea that steph could carry his own team, but similar to last year, it's a shame his health keeps coming up. Hope we still get a chance to find out by the time this year is over to find out. Given their roster, they SHOULD be good enough to at least make the playoffs and even get past the first round if he (and dray*) are truly that good.
     
  18. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Do you thiink its easy to make the passes he does? Or to make the right reads that he does? Pair him with someone like Lillard or Jamal Murray, or Kyrie and hed be damn useful out there. He's one of the greatest defenders of all time and THE best of the modern nba. He's a top 10 passer in the NBA.

    This video here shows his strengths.

     
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  19. HewbieTrippin

    HewbieTrippin Member

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    I don't think his passes to curry are particularly hard because curry is the one getting open enough. Draymond is not getting curry open by his gravity like premier playmakers do nor is he ever under any pressure from his man in making those passes. He's just smartly very stubborn and constantly on the lookout to get the ball to steph at any possible opportunity. He usually has the other team's 3rd or 4th best defender on him, especially in their title runs and the only time you saw him have pressure at the top of the key to make those passes was when they played us and tucker was giving him some problems with it.

    The passes that are more difficult are the ones he's making to his other teammates cuts whose 3pt shooting isn't at the tier of curry's. Steph's 3pt shooting is so insanely good that it opens up so many cuts for him towards the basket. When you have average 3pt shooters and he's still making a lot of those passes that lead to buckets, I'll give him credit. But again, most of his assists come directly from curry or from the attention curry draws.

    And no, I don't think with Lillard he'd be as effective as Dame is an average off-ball player. Murray is a bit more skilled in that area playing with Jokic. Kyrie is a mixed bag. He's versatile enough offensively, but none of these guys' off-ball movement comes close to curry's. You'll see a lot of curry getting cut off, giving the ball up and then swinging the ball back out, waiting for the defense to relax and then swing to the opposite side to get a pass from draymond and then he'll hit the semi-contested 3. I don't know that the 3 you mentioned can do that very consistently and not at the level steph does.

    But I generally AGREE with you on the defensive side of the ball. He's the perfect defensive big in this era and has proven he can defend opposing stars, whether anthony davis or even james harden at times. My point is that on the offensive side of the ball, I think he gets too much love. And I highly doubt that draymond will EVER play without curry, as in past seasons it takes but one game without curry before he too goes on the IL too. I don't think that's a coincidence.
     
    #1459 HewbieTrippin, Feb 20, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  20. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    There are a couple of passes there that yea its easy to get it to him. I have not said that Draymond is the playmaker but he is making the passes in those spots that most others at his position could not make. Do you think anyone else would rack up assists like that making the right reads to cutters and absolutely demolishing 4v3s something that Westbrook, who is supposedly a great passer could not make?

    He has lobs, he hits cutters, he hits Curry immediately when he needs and because he's the best shooter in the league. He hits dudes in transition. He sets probably the best screens in the league. He's a top 10 passer for real, that has really nice value. Sure Curry is the playmaker. But not everyone can actually make the reads that he does. And fwiw he averaged over 6 assists per game without Curry last year. Yea Curry makes everything easier but I think Draymond is also not a dude that couldnt make it work with other great players.


    Lillard can move off ball, I think the tracking data shows Lillard miles traveled on court isnt that different from Curry. All of these guys who can come off pins downs and are great shooters slash cutters can work with Draymond. It just depends on the offense you put him in. To say he be worthless without a Curry is not true when passing and vision are attributes which are very scalable.

    His defensive value obviously is what his bread and butter is, but his passing ability in addion to these things is what makes him so impact ful as a player. Seriously. Come playoff time his metrics go to top of the league and Im not joking.

    Again if you have time, watch this video, its great.

     

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