Here's what I said back then: I thought they would have traded Walker away in midseason as soon as they saw that he's not helping them. I don't know. I never liked Walker's game. But LaFrenz's is worse. So they didn't lose anything. They just didn't get better while the other Western elite teams all got better. I'm pretty sure Cuban and Co. will do something big in the offseason, again.
Walker said in the post game interview on UPN 21 up here that "maybe I'm not the right fit for the team" - INTERESTING But no, I DO NOT want him as a Rocket... used to, but not after seeing his dumb play up here in Dallas. His 2 last minute turnovers in game 5 vs. SAC was enough to convince me against him.
Exactly. You can paint that trade however you want, but Dallas still got the better end of it. I'm thinking they will overpay talentwise for a center this offseason. But they still wont make it to the finals.
Walker sucks, he is a cancer and really detrimental to any team he plays on. His addition hurt Dirk's game, and NVE's subtraction hurt the Mavs more than Walker's and Jamison's addition could help. They need to get rid of Walker and Jamison and get some shot-blockers and a tough backup point guard. Then they need to get back to what made them strong enough to destroy the Wolves a couple of years ago, focusing on Dirk as the No. 1 weapon.
A consistent issue with trade discussion here is the notion that because you trade for a BETTER player than the one you're trading away, you came off well in the deal. That's fine in fantasy hoops...but that's not fine when it comes to putting a team together. It's like making a trade in a bubble. When making a trade, a team should consider: 1. what it already does well; 2. what it has in excess that it could use for bargaining postion -- trading from a position of strength; 3. what it doesn't do well; 4. who would help it address the things it doesn't do well; 5. how will acquiring that player affect team chemistry. We can say all day long that Walker is a "better" player than Raef...but he clearly was not a better fit for this team. They traded for the kind of player they had in excess, while trading away one of the few players who helped them address their weaknesses. He even readily acknowledges that he likely doesn't fit in on this team. They already had scorers...they needed real post players and defenders without giving up on those they already had. They ignored their own needs and brought in another player for the sake of making a trade....for the sake of being newsworthy. Frankly, Walker didn't make this team any more interesting at all. He just took touches away from the players who do what he does...but do and did it better than he did. Winning is infintely more interesting than scoring. The talk in that old thread of "changing the game" by taking it to them on offense ignores that there are some fundamentals to the game of basketball. It reminds me of the dot-com boom..."we don't need to stick with business fundamentals...we don't need to show profit...we'll just make money." huh? At the end of the day, there are fundamentals in place, that have been in place, for years. And when you ignore them...and literally work against them...you're out in the first round. 3-1.
what other trade?? yeah...he's funny as hell..but he was quite the supporter of the walker deal. is he a mavs fan?
The Walker deal was good simply from a talent perspective. They ended up with more net talent after the trade than before. Same with the Jamison deal. Both Walker & Jamison can be traded for more than Dallas had to give up for them, so Dallas is now in a better position to improve through trades. If they decide they need a defensive power forward (or whatever), using Jamison and/or Walker as bait is going to get them a lot more than Van Exel or Raef LaFrenz would have. It's never really a bad idea to stockpile young talent, although it certainly did hurt them this year.
but is the idea to stock up talent or to win rings? particularly when you're as close as they were the year before? if the rockets decided to stock good talent right now for positioning down the road, i'd be fine with that...they're not knocking on the door of a championship with the group they have in place. but dallas may have been a role player in the post away from being a serious threat. instead, then went out in the first round with a whimper. it's about building a TEAM. not assembling a group with the same set of strengths. in no way did the walker trade maximize the value of the players they already had...instead, it just took away touches from those that led them deep the year before. it was making a deal just to make a deal, with little regard to fit.
but is the idea to stock up talent or to win rings? The idea is to win rings, but sometimes, stocking talent is a step in that process. but dallas may have been a role player in the post away from being a serious threat. instead, then went out in the first round with a whimper. Sure, but what if that role player wasn't available for NVE and/or LaFrenz? Should they have traded one of their big 3 to get him? I'd argue no. Now, they have a big 5 and can afford to overpay for whatever role player they want. Trade one or two of them, and they can get virtually any role player in the league, while still having a core of the big 3 (preferably for them, Jamison and Walker would be the ones to go). I don't think this trade particularly hurt them - they would have been no better with LaFrenz & NVE than they were. Could they have gotten better in some other route? Hard to say - we don't know who or what was available to them. If nothing was there for what they were willing to give up, they might as well make moves to help them down the road. That said, I don't think that was their plan. I think the idea was to build an offensive juggernaut.. but with the caveat that if it didn't work, those players could be traded elsewhere for more than the players that they had. All in all, a win-win situation. If it improved the team, great. If it didn't, they are positioned better for the future. The window is not closing for Dallas - their players are still relatively young and now with the two rookies, even younger - so they have the luxury of taking a chance like that.
fair enough...i would have stood pat...and given the guys the benefit of playing another year together...developing the chemistry. not bringing in a piece who would diminish any of the others...who adds nothing more than what you're already getting. but they don't pay me to make those decisions. there was the option of not making another trade at all.
MM, LaFrentz didn't help Dallas address their need either. He was supposed to be a shot blocker. But he got into foul trouble too easily. So his defense was pretty useless because he couldn't be aggressive without committing fouls. He was also supposed to be a 3 pts shooter. But he couldn't hit. And the didn't need another shooter anyway. So I don't think they gave up anything valuable to the team to get Walker. I agree one may argue that while LaFrentz gave zero value, Walker gives negative value, and thus the Mavs actually got worse by adding Walker. I don't know. My inclination is to believe that if Walker was really a negative to the team, they would have already shipped him out. On stocking on talent, I agree that if you are almost there, you should focus on adding a piece that can push you over the hump. And Walker was clearly not that piece. Maybe they didn't think they were almost there. More probably, maybe they just couldn't get the piece they need. So the second best they could do is getting better value and position themselves to get that piece when it's available. BTW, anyone notice that Jerry West is stockpiling young talents. I think he is positioning himself to get a superstar type guy by dealing his surplus young talents.
easy -- i understand lafrentz wasn't the perfect player for their needs. but he still addressed that need better than walker did...and they added walker who didn't address any of their needs at all. keep in mind, this was a team that gave a strong run to the WCF just the year before. it's not like they tried with lafrentz and were incredibly disappointed. i would have allowed that team to play one more year together before adding the different elements that cuban added in walker and jamison. i watched a team with guys like vernon maxwell and kenny smith win a championship before, simply because they had a starting 5 that played together longer than any other starting 5 in the league...they knew each other's game...and they spaced around one of the greatest centers of all time. i think there's much to be said for team chemistry in hoops. and jacking with a young team that was that close just seemed and seems like a mistake to me.
I think we can agree to disagree about the value of LaFrentz to Dallas. One thing is clear. Cuban is impatient. He sees something not working well, he changes it. That might be what it takes to succeed in the hi-tech industry. But in basketball, that is probably going to backfire on him.
i don't think we disagree on lafrentz. he may or may not have been enough....but i'm not sure you trade him away unless you can get a player who can improve on those things you do not do well. he was one of the few players on that team that did those things at all. totally agreed on cuban. so busy making a move that he doesn't stop to think if he should or not.
Interesting perspectives. Since I'm a Mav's fan, I hated the trade for Walker, and liked the Jamison one, but I tried to understand where they were coming from and in my homer way, I tried to justify it. The reason these moves were made was that they gave up on 2004 before it was even played. Why? Well, if they stayed the same, they probably could move a little bit up on the Spurs because they lost Robinson, but with Payton and Malone going to the Lakers, Miller going to Sac, and Cassell/Spree to Minni they saw the writing on the wall. They also had a medical perspective on NVE and Raefs knees that may have played into the decision. They might get past 1 of those teams standing pat, but it was doubtful they could get past 2 of them. The other thing to remember is that no team since the pistons has won a championship without having one of the top 3 players in the league and Dirk is not a top 3 player. Looking at what he did this year, I'm not sure if he ever will be, that will be decided next year after Dirk and Nash get a whole summer off without international play. What they did not understand was how invaluable NVE was to the teams ability to control the temo of games when Nash was resting. Without another starting level PG of the level of NVE, this team will go nowhere even if they get a decent center. But as some said, they have tons of ammo. They are one of the few teams that could trade 2 stars, rookies and ending salaries for a super-star if they became available. Really they can put togther any combination of players to become a trade partner in any deal that goes down this summer. Stressboy
Speaking of I told ya so's....what happened to that Grizz fan during the playoffs? He was creating so much hype for his team, and pow. He is gone. And same with the Nuggets dude.
