MacBeth, thanks for answering my various questions. I'm intrigued by the addition of Rose, but the deal breaker for me is the #8 pick and the likelihood of picking up a difference maker ready to start within a year. No offense, gucci, but I don't see Seattle making that trade. Rashard's worth more to the Sonics than Lewis. Cat for Harrington is a possibility, but likely insufficient. Rasheed would be great, but at this point isn't likely. I agree with you in principle, but I think we fans overestimate the type of deals we can pull off. I'll be surprised if we come out of this offseason with a deal as popular as the Moochie and Amaechi for Spoon trade.
First off let me say this. Im not a Yao fan only nor am I a S only fan. Im a diehard, hardcore, love um when win or when lose fan. But the numbers clearly suggest that without Steve Francis the Rockets would have been swept out of the playoff; providing they would have ever made it without him. Steve's stats in the playoff suggest that IF we do trade him we will LOSE a ton of talent! 5 5 44.4 30-70 .429 7-17 .412 29-40 .725 1.20 7.20 8.40 7.6 1.40 .20 4.20 3.60 19.2 Yao was handled very well in his first playoff series. I love Yao, he will later be one of the most dominate forces in NBA history. But at this stage in both Steve and Yao careers I feel they need one another to be successful. Yao's stats prove it! 5 5 37.0 31-68 .456 0-0 .000 13-17 .765 2.20 5.20 7.40 1.8 .40 1.40 2.60 4.00 15.0 This would be a tragic offseason if for some reason Steve is not back. Thank you!
Steve averaged more PPG, RPG, ASP, Steals/game compared to Rose, while Rose has just as many TOs as SF. As bad as SF's shooting was last season, Rose still shot the ball just as bad, having the same FG%. Don't forget that Rose still has a max contract. Rose and Marshall would be nice role players for us, but we still need another star to play alongside Yao. Lakers=Kobe/Shaq/Malone/Payton Kings=Peja, Webber, Bibby, Miller Wolves=Garnett, Sprewell, Cassell Spurs=Duncan, Parker Mavs=Dirk, Nash, Finley, Walker Rockets=Yao/Rose/Cat??????? Unless the Rox get a superstar in return, SF shouldn't go, period.
The Charlotte trade is exactly the type of deal I was hoping to see the Rockets make. It’s not just a lateral move like the Ray Allen trade where the Rockets might improve slightly but there would be little upside in the future. I'm happy to see that the Rockets are not going to be conservative and go the safe route. With the 4th pick the Rockets can try to find themselves another Chris Bosh or another Amare Stoudamire-type player with huge upside that can grow along with Yao. With the cap space gained by losing Steve and Taylor/Cato’s contracts they can make a run at someone like Mehmet Okur or Rasheed Wallace.
What about our PG? These deals suck, but it may be to early to speculate as I'am sure this will be one of many deals on the table later in the offseason.
Elie was playing, in my opinion, the best ball of his career and only getting better, when Rose broke his wrist on a hard, intentional, unnecessary foul. (I don't remember now whether he hit his arm or undercut him and caused him to break it when breaking his fall. I do remember it was an outrageous foul.) Took him forever to come back and when he did he was never the same. Elie was initially very pissed but eventually accepted Rose's apology if I remember right. I didn't accept it. I don't ever want him on our team.
Ok, let's think about this. Doc Rocket has always been reliable, so I have no problem believing that Francis said those things. Here's what I do have problems with: 1) If we were shopping Francis, we probably wouldn't tell him just in case we couldn't get a deal we liked and he ended up staying here. 2) No way that we would be seriously negotiating a Francis trade yet. We'd wait until after the playoffs, so that all of the playoff teams could have a chance to make an offer. 3) Why do you trade for Mo Pete and Rose when you already have Mobley, Nachbar, Jackson and Piatkoski? 4) Other than Okafor, I don't believe that there's anybody in the draft that would interest us. No way do we take a HS kid and I don't believe that we'd take Nelson either. 5) Charlotte taking Francis and a bad contract also makes no sense. First of all, I seriously doubt that Charlotte would tie up $11M on Francis. They are going to be alot more careful with their money. They're going to go young and they will sell out every game the first few years, even if they are the worst team in the league. If they give out a max deal, it will have to be for an elite player and Francis isn't one of those. Francis + a bad contract? Makes no sense as Sane pointed out earlier. Charlotte's salary cap is only 2/3 of the rest of the league. I can't see them tying up 2/3 of their cap on Francis and Taylor. I still think Francis will be traded. From Doc's post, I now also believe that Francis thinks that he will be traded, but nothing more. The serious trade negotiations wouldn't begin until after the lottery and after we know which players opted out of their contracts. I've got to admit that if you did want to mess with Francis, convincing him that he's about to be traded to Canada is pretty funny.
If that's true, screw him two times. I thought I remembered Elie forgiving him. Seems weird he'd do that without an apology. I really think he should be booed whenever he plays in Houston. Still.
Both scenarios sound extremely disappointing. If Rockets management does either I'd be shocked. You don't trade away a superstar for spare parts.
Wasn't that on the day of the post season Team meeting? Maybe he just meant he had checked in his locker room stuff and was now going on vacation for a while. Like on the last day of school saying , "that's it for me, I'm outa here" And why are there question marks? Was he asking the dude "is this it for me?" I'm no insider but I think it is way too early for The Rockets to agree any specific deal. For one, you would preclude any team still in the playoffs from consideration and the most likely dreamcasting I have seen is Cat to Indiana (although Reggie still has 2 years on his contract). Secondly, I heard JVG lay a lot of praise on Stevie on 610 the afternoon of the team meeting and he sounded sincere. And third why would you alienate a player by telling him you are going to trade him befor you have inked a deal and have it approved by the league. If something goes hinky you'll never get any loyalty out of him. If anything Steve was just predicting his own fate after hearing so much BS from the Houston fans all year long or wishing he would get traded away from all the criticism.
If you trade Francis, you should either be getting a star in return or at the very least pieces that fit this team better than SF. Neither of these trades accomplish that. Hopefully this is just preliminary discussions and CD/JVG/Les don't fall for the first lowball offers.
Yeah, so were Hakeem Olajuwon and Patrick Ewing. Rose was a 45-48% shooter for years then. He's a 40% shooter the past two seasons. This year Steve Francis shot better than him (sort of puts it in to perspective). For that matter, Mo Pete shoots like crap too. The Rockets need depth badly, but I wouldn't call it a good deal for the Rockets since I don't think it makes them potential championship material -- now or later. No doubt the Raptors would be loving it though. It does strike me as the type of deal that Van Gundy would target. Toronto is only a good trade partner for a Francis deal if they land the #1 or #2 pick. They could afford to trade a pick to be used on a PF since they have Bosh. Oh yeah, everything aelliott said. The only real nugget to take away from it is that Steve thinks he'll be dealt... the actual trades discussed was just talk in May. Fun to talk about, but between now and 4 months from now (when Steve can be dealt), one hell of a lot will change -- guaranteed.
Both scenarios suck. If that's all a Francis trade would net us, I'd rather just keep him. If CD signs off on either of these trades, I'll personally fly down to Houston and run him out of town myself.
CD strikes again! I hope that isn't what we're saying in August. Star for Star should be CD's pat answer to any GM asking about SF. Raven
I was on record long ago that when (not if) the Francis trade goes down, 2/3 of this board would be screaming negative expletives at the Rockets management based upon "That's all we got?". And (barring injury) about Jan or Feb, 1/2 of those 2/3 would be wowed by how well the Rockets played as a team. (They already have the defense part down). Rose and Mo Pete use $5.5m of the TE and Rose and Marshall don't work because they make $7.5m and the TE is $6.99m (but both are clearly doable). The Mo Pete trade leaves us SF/SG heavy so I would have to think the Rockets would send a "big" to use the assigned player exepction in the trade and thus keep our TE to move Mobley and/or Taylor and/or Cato. What will go over many posters heads is that JVG is looking for players that fit. That usually doesn't translate into All Stars. The only downside I see is that a #8 in a weak draft may not net much. I doubt Deng or Livingston or Harris will be there. If they are, a good deal becomes a great deal.
I don't see how 2 players that both shot 40% in a similar system are going to improve the rockets one bit.
