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[NEW YORK TIMES] Should Biden appoint a "reality czar"?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Feb 3, 2021.

  1. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  2. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    well played
     
  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    related. see also the point made about defining "disinformation"

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/libera...Id=3&cx_testVariant=cx_2&cx_artPos=1#cxrecs_s

    Liberalism’s Ministry of Truth
    Academics and the progressive press mull state media controls.
    By The Editorial Board
    Feb. 3, 2021 6:36 pm ET

    The academic establishment and progressive press want you to know two things: First, conservative claims of social-media bias are bogus. As Silicon Valley firms police content, their decisions are, miraculously, wholly uninfluenced by ideological preference.

    Second, there is an urgent need for a much wider crackdown on political speech, perhaps led by the Biden Administration and requiring the creation of new government agencies. In other words, all that conservative suppression that’s, er, not happening? We need more of it.

    New York University’s Stern Center for Business and Human Rights released a brief this week that is being amplified in the press entitled, “False Accusation: The Unfounded Claim that Social Media Companies Censor Conservatives.” It argues that “some conservatives believe their content is suppressed on partisan grounds when, in fact, it’s being singled out because it violates neutral platform rules.”

    That is sometimes true, but the report doesn’t remotely prove that it always is. What about when Twitter and Facebook tried to suppress a New York Post story about Hunter Biden before the 2020 election? Even the report concedes that “the question of whether social media companies harbor an anti-conservative bias can’t be answered conclusively.”

    That doesn’t stop the authors from unabashedly asserting that “the claim of anti-conservative animus is itself a form of disinformation.” It is perpetuated partly because “it appeals to the same conspiratorial mindset that has fostered the QAnon movement.”

    Got it? Anyone who argues social-media moderation has a progressive slant is spreading disinformation, and possibly drawn to a bizarre cult. And remember that disinformation is against the rules—which, once again, are neutral.

    Among the solutions to the non-problem of progressive bias is, naturally, government control. The NYU report recommends that “the federal government . . . press Facebook, Google, and Twitter to improve content policies” and “cooperate with these companies” on enforcement. This political suppression—er, neutral government-backed content policy—“could be enforced by a new Digital Regulatory Agency.”

    Since we’re devising new entities for speech control, the New York Times offers another idea. Experts recommend “that the Biden administration put together a cross-agency task force to tackle disinformation and domestic extremism, which would be led by something like a ‘reality czar,’” the beacon of progressive tolerance avers.

    When disinformation (or at least disinformation that is not useful to the Biden Administration) spreads, then according to the Times, “a centralized task force could coordinate a single, strategic response” and enlist the tech platforms. That “could become the tip of the spear for the federal government’s response to the reality crisis.”

    Government as the “tip of the spear” against political speech? Imagine if Donald Trump had floated that one.

    Intellectuals don’t merely want the Biden Administration to promote progressive policies. Flush with power, they’re now suggesting that government should police the flow of ideas and assume the authority to define reality itself. So bring on the truth commissions. And if any political minority group complains that the Ministry of Truth is biased, worry not—the reality czar can make quick work of such disinformation.

    Appeared in the February 4, 2021, print edition.
     
    tinman likes this.
  4. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    And yet again, the boogie man as if a Czar is god. Perhaps go back to understanding definition.

    wait


    noun: czar
    1. 1.
      an emperor of Russia before 1917.
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  5. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    85% of your BS editorials might go out of business.
     
  6. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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  7. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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  8. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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  9. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    you guys must have missed the part about "The false narrative branding the GOP as the party of sedition" . . . that would make the "murderous insurrection" language disinformation, which, if Biden gets to appoint his reality czar, will be made illegal. You guys will go to jail. ;)
     
    Astrodome likes this.
  10. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    It's literally not a false brand when the President, who is the head of the GOP, and multiple Senators incite sedition and insurrection. Don't believe your lying eyes I guess. Is that the new strategy? Lie, deceive, pretend. Mkay.
     
  11. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    "insurrection" is a subjective, interpretive term--as is sedition--and that's the point many of these commenters make. A less loaded term would simply be "riot," in which case one may draw different conclusions both about the event itself and about what needs to be done in response.
     
    B-Bob likes this.
  12. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    However we can less load the facts for you to make it seem that you're not a bunch of seditionists and traitors then by all means. You guys only undermined the election with patently false horse**** conspiracies for weeks on end and then incited a mob full of white supremacists and loonies to murder a cop and ransack the capitol building while the Congress tried to perform a Constitutionally required step for the transition of power from your crackpot President to the new President.
     
  13. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    I have no idea what you just wrote
     
  14. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    It was subjective and interpretive.
     
  15. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    this took 30 seconds to find:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/verify-what-does-insurrection-mean/ar-BB1cyWFu

    excerpt:

    Jacobovitz says he expects a lot of arrests and charges to come from Wednesday's Capitol breach.

    "There will be an investigation," he says, "You have potential charges of sedition. You have potential charges of treason. And, you know, it was a mob, which was breaking into the Capitol and causing vast destruction. There have been arrests already, but there will be more arrests."

    The key for prosecuting, he says, is intent. If federal investigators cannot prove that a person charged with insurrection actually intended to overthrow the government or lawful authority, they would likely face lower charges instead, like rioting or destruction of property.
    there's more at the link. here is info on Jacobovitz: https://www.agg.com/professionals/jeffrey-jacobovitz/
     
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  16. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    It took me five seconds to understand that words have meaning outside of the US legal code.

    Go ahead, post another that I can shoot down in two seconds.

    :rolleyes:
     
  17. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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  18. Phillyrocket

    Phillyrocket Member

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    I don’t know about this but I would like to see elected officials held to an ethical and truthful standard and punished if they state vitriolic outright lies.

    There’s a reason fact checking websites and organizations exist and that’s because politicians lie and their base just eats it up. I wouldn’t mind seeing the government have a branch that fact checks all those tweets and speeches and creates a report or like a scorecard for the public to be aware of. This scorecard should be very highly publicized. In a perfect world it would help shape a non biased viewpoint of all elected officials.

    What I would really like is if a politician said something false they would be required to publicly retract it and apologize. Of course for Trump he would have spent half his time doing so.
     
  19. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    Since there hasn't been a reality Czar yet, you can't blame or credit this to one....

    And for those loving to see Section 230 reforms (yes, there has been 2 or 3 proposals since Trump wanted to axe it as @Os Trigonum surely will remember) ...

    Trump wanted to strip liability protection for self-moderation of content (he wants zero moderation). This bill aims at stripping liability protection for user generated contents IF user is paid for it. IOW, if you profit from it, you are also liable for harmful content. It goes farther than that though.... read on below.

    "Thoughtfully, if imperfectly..."

    Finally, an Interesting Proposal for Section 230 Reform | WIRED

    BY THE END of last year, there were few better symbols of bad-faith politics than Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, the law that gives online platforms legal immunity for user-generated content. After a fairly sleepy existence since its passage in 1996, Section 230 turned into an unlikely rallying cry for a subset of Republican politicians who disingenuously blamed it for letting social media platforms discriminate against conservatives. (In fact, the law has nothing to do with partisan balance, and if anything allows platforms to keep more right-wing content up than they otherwise would.) Down the home stretch of his reelection campaign, Donald Trump began dropping Section 230 references into his stump speeches. The whole thing culminated with a pair of depressing Senate hearings that, while nominally about Section 230, were little more than PR stunts designed for Ted Cruz to get clips of himself berating Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey. Senate Democrats didn’t quite cover themselves in glory either.

    So it’s a bit of a surprise to see a legislative proposal on Section 230 that thoughtfully, if imperfectly, addresses some of the most glaring problems with the law. The SAFE TECH Act, a bill announced on Friday morning by Democratic senators Mark Warner, Mazie Hirono, and Amy Klobuchar, is an encouraging sign that members of Congress are paying attention to the smartest critiques of Section 230 and trying to craft appropriate solutions.

    First, a brief refresher is in order. Section 230 was passed in 1996 in order to encourage interactive platforms on the nascent internet—message boards, at the time—to self-moderate. The first part of the law says that “interactive computer services” are not legally liable for user-generated content. The second part says that they are free to moderate that content without becoming liable for it. This solved the dilemma of a company putting itself at greater legal risk by being more proactive about monitoring harmful content.

    In recent years, the law has occasioned quite a bit of debate. Section 230’s defenders credit it with enabling the rise of the modern internet. They argue that interactive websites would be unimaginable without it, crushed under the threat of lawsuits from anyone offended by a comment, post, or customer review. The law’s detractors counter that Section 230 lets companies like Facebook and YouTube, along with shadier bottom-dwellers, profit off of hosting harmful content without having to bear the costs of cleaning it up.

    Some of the questions raised in this debate are difficult to answer. But some are pretty easy. That’s because judges have interpreted Section 230 immunity so broadly that it has led to legal outcomes that seem obviously perverse. Today, Section 230 protects gossip sites that actively encourage users to submit nasty rumors and even revenge p*rn, essentially legalizing a harassment-based business model. Until Congress recently intervened, it protected sites like Backpage, that were set up to facilitate prostitution. It lets companies off the hook even when they have been made aware that they are being used to inflict harm on people. In one now-notorious case, a man’s ex-boyfriend impersonated him on Grindr, the popular gay dating app, sending a stream of men to his home and work addresses looking for sex. Grindr ignored the victim’s pleas to do something about it. After the victim sued, a federal judge ruled that Section 230 protected Grindr from any responsibility.

    The law is even applied to commercial transactions whose consequences are felt in the physical world. In 2012, a Wisconsin man murdered his wife and two of her coworkers using a gun he had bought from Armslist, a “firearms marketplace.” Because he was subject to a restraining order, he was legally prohibited from owning a gun. Armslist allowed him to get around that. The victim’s daughter sued, and the Wisconsin Supreme Court eventually ruled that Section 230 made Armslist immune, because the ad for the gun was posted by a user.

    The SAFE TECH Act takes aim at these Section 230 excesses. It explicitly says that immunity doesn’t apply to lawsuits alleging stalking, harassment, or intimidation—as in gossip sites or the Grindr case. It likewise exempts wrongful death actions, so that a site like Armslist might have to defend itself when a gun sale it facilitates ends with someone dead. It also establishes that immunity doesn’t extend to advertisements, under the sensible theory that if a platform is directly getting paid to host a piece of content, it shouldn’t be completely free of any liability for it. And, in a subtle tweak, the bill would get rid of immunity altogether when it comes to injunctions, rather than damages. That might sound like a technical legal fix, but it’s a smart one: Even if Section 230 immunity is necessary to protect platforms from crippling legal battles, that logic doesn’t apply when someone like the Grindr victim is merely asking the company to take a certain action, like suspending an account. Obeying injunctions shouldn’t drive anyone bankrupt.

    The bill has its shortcomings. First, it leaves Section 230 immunity in place for defamation claims. That’s understandable—what to do about online libel and slander is probably the hardest question in the Section 230 debate—but it means the bill, if passed, likely wouldn’t have much impact on the degree of disinformation that takes place on social media platforms like Facebook and YouTube. (Section 230 is the reason the voting machine company Smartmatic, which just filed a $2.7 billion lawsuit against Fox News for spreading lies about its responsibility for election fraud, can’t also sue the social media platforms.)

    A second weakness of the bill is its approach to preventing Section 230 from being used as a shield in commercial transactions. The original text of the law says, “No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider.” (Bold added.) The SAFE TECH Act replaces that first “information” with “speech.” The point here is apparently to prevent companies like Amazon, Airbnb, and Uber from claiming immunity over everything posted on their services by the people who use them. But if that’s the goal, the bill should explicitly say so. Merely swapping in the word “speech” is a weak way to go about it, because a major trend in First Amendment law over the past few decades has been to categorize more and more economic behavior as “speech.” Plenty of judges considering a Section 230 claim, especially Republican-appointed ones, will have no problem concluding that apartment rental listing, a gun advertisement, or a ride-share offer counts as “speech” for the purposes of the law.

    Still, on balance, the SAFE TECH Act should move the Section 230 debate forward by drawing attention to the ways that the law has been stretched beyond its original purpose. There just isn’t any good reason for a business’s liability to hinge on whether it conducts a particular transaction online or in person. The bill also deserves credit for trying to address concrete problems with Section 230, unlike other reform proposals that would use the threat of repeal as leverage to force companies to do things that Congress thinks it can’t make them do directly.

    After last year’s Section 230 theater, the bar for thoughtful argument about the law in Washington could hardly have gotten any lower. The SAFE TECH Act isn’t perfect, but it should go a long way to getting serious reform off the ground.
     
  20. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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