Teachers should be considered front line candidates for COVID-19 vaccinations

This is not true at least in my school no classes have been shut down.

I work at a high school in the most infected county in Texas and the cases are relatively low and we have been open all year.

We have had a lot of kids coming back so we will see if things spike but so far so good.

 

I think this is overblown but I am in Texas and kids have a choice.

I do agree some socialization is needed.

 

That wasn't the case here. Last fall if anyone got covid in a class, the entire class was shutdown for a quarantine period. Back in the fall, we didn't have adequate testing capacity so mandatory quarantines were required. In rural areas with Covid outbreaks, this made operating a school incredibly difficult.

That has changed as schools do testing on site now but that wasn't available back then. And community testing is really good now (I myself get tested once a week and it takes maybe 5 minutes to do now with results in 24 hours). Also, my issue isn't with community spread per se. My issue is with the risk of teachers and administrators specifically. You can't just casually replace teachers. If the elementary school teacher gets Covid, the class just loses its teacher for an extended period. That is disruptive in and of itself. If you care about creating a positive and strong schooling experience, the most important person in the classroom is the teacher. It doesn't matter if the risk of spread is low. There's only one teacher for the class and that has its own consequences. And in some school districts, there are huge shortages of substitutes which creates additional strain.

I am hopeful that the experience here is much better this go around. Schools here are definitely more prepared and the state has set aside some vaccines for teachers (again we still do vaccinate 65+, they just also gave teachers and child care workers equal priority). Daily covid testing for staff (and for students that want it) has also been a big boost as schools can be more proactive now. But I would guess that Texas has not gone to the same lengths which to me re-enforces the need for vaccines for teachers.

 

It's actually matters on a school by school basis you cannot lump all of Texas together, it depends on the administrator making sure guidelines are met and practiced.

 

Totally fair. I realize there is a lot of nuance to all of this. My point is that like everyone else, I want to minimize disruptions in schools and ensure in person learning. If that means guaranteeing some vaccines to teachers and staff to minimize downtime, then I think we should do that. Dedicating a portion of vaccines for child care workers and school staff to me is a good tradeoff.

 

Such a delicate issue that is to the forefront because of the government's inept and incompetent handling of the virus. I see the studies that it doesn't spread as much in schools but a teacher is much harder to replace with a much bigger impact than a waiter or a grocery worker. At the very least teachers should be given n95 masks and they should perhaps be in that 1B pool with those over 65 and with serious medical conditions. From what I understand these n95 masks went for $.50/each prior to the virus and now they're selling for like $4 a piece. This is where the defense production act should have come into play early last year. We basically ignored important things we could have done last year in favor of just waiting for a vaccine without any plan on how to quickly vaccinate the public. So here we are arguing about who's essential. Parents use school as a mechanism to have their kids watched while the parents work. Meanwhile children most assuredly are falling behind not only in actual course work but in socialization. I don't blame teachers for wanting to be protected. If you want your children taught and watched, the very least you can do is assure the teachers they are safe. I support the teachers on this one.

 

Practically you can't in most large cities because teacher's unions will - rightfully, IMO + demand vaccination before hand citing the hundreds of dead teachers a evidence. And very few municipalities will provoke or win that kind of fight.

Trying to sort out vaccine priority candidates is a fool's game. You can make creditable cases for lots of groups based on risk or whatever. But societally we can and should and di prioritize reopening schools and if vaccinating teachers is what it takes even though you can make a benthamite case that traveling salesman or whatever are more deserving in terms of loss mitigation, you just kind of suck it up as the price of reopening schools.

Finding the optimal vaccine priority strategy ex ante is very hard. It's super important to reopen schools. That's what it takes to get it done in many states - so that's what's happening

 

teachers are right up there with journalists and politicians in undeserved self-regard

 

Lol

 

Your ego is right up there with them, but more pertinent, you're right up there with sacks and outhouses, in terms of places for ****.

Stay thirsty amigo

 

If you’d paid more attention to your teachers maybe wouldn’t be the awful poster you are today.

 

I understand the theory, but the alternative is we stand up to the teacher's unions and do what's right to get the country on track instead of what's easiest and most convenient in the short term. Schools all over the country have reopened despite unions complaining. At the end of the day, they'll get over it.

 

I agree - though I think it's just meant to be a goal that sounds good. Kind of like 100MM vaccines in 100 days - which actually is really easy and we should do way better. Honestly, I actually think vaccine production and delivery is going to skyrocket over the next 60 days, and within 100 days, the vast majority of high-risk people will be vaccinated. All teachers will be also. I think in 100 days, schools would have no problem re-opening because cases will have plummeted. You need 60-70% for herd immunity to eliminate the virus, but you only need like 30% to drastically reduce risk and hospitalization and let society start normalizing. Everyone will still need masks/etc, but - in my opinion - people are underestimating just how quickly the vaccine will change things.

 

And lots of teachers have died as a result....I don't think they're going to get over it!

The utility calculus or cost benefit or whatever is not super clear - there's tons of unknowns on spread/variants etc. Is it better to vacinate an amoral potential spreader or a dutiful shut-in with health problems? I don't know there's no easy answer ethically or empirically.

Who's the more deserving groups? all 60-65 year olds or teachers? What about the disastrous second order efects on younger children in depriving them of school for an entire year? You can make arguments both ways, but if one gets schools reopened and another doesn't get us any closer to getting schools reopened, it's an easy choice which is probably why at least half of all states have moved in that direction

 

...the problem might be that whoever you're talking to might have been homeschooled. ...and you can only learn what somebody else is willing and/or able to teach you...

 

The role of a teacher is one of the most important roles in the development of people and by proxy society.

Outside of parents, teachers are the most important relationships in the development of people.

Teachers are in general not treated properly in the USA.

It should be harder to be a teacher (there are some mediocre ones), but teachers should also be paid better than they are as well so that the quality of teachers improve. Society also should not have flippant responses towards the importance of teaching like you have in this thread.

I do not like teachers unions, often times they are out of line in my experience and in my opinion.

Having said that, it doesn't mean that teachers are being treated appropriately.

I personally moved to the very best school district in the state that I live in for that very reason. I have looked at the private schools in the state as well, but the best school district also tended to be one of the very wealthiest districts (imagine that). I do not see how any self respecting parents can be so flippant about teachers and the education system. Some people cannot afford to send their kids to the best districts with the ability to hire better teachers and better resources. That is isn't fair but it is a reality....... but to have the means and be so flippant? You should be ashamed.

 

Lots of Americans have died from COVID. There is no evidence that a higher percentage of teachers have died compared to other professions that have the same level of Covid priority.

This is unchartered territory so no one knows for sure. What we know from the numbers are that those that are over 60 are 22 times more likely to die from COVID.

The states have the ability to make educators a priority on par with health care providers and those over 65. If they choose to do it, so be it. However, the fact that the federal government through the CDC has put teachers in the tier right below the elderly and healthcare workers is not an outrage as some are making it out to be. They are still a very high priority. Also, many schools have been opened for some time.

I completely agree with you that in this ****ed up system we have, teachers have become de facto child care. I also agree with you that students are suffering as a result of not having in person education. I saw it with my son when this all started. The teachers were exceptional, they did a marvelous job establishing zoom classrooms. They did everything possible, but it wasn't the same as in person. Also you and I both know that there will be long term consequences down the line because these children have in many cases essentially missed a year of education.

I will say that there is a part of me that likes that Abbott and the other **** head governors that did not take this serious will have to face electoral consequences. There should be electoral consequences for stupidity. Hopefully the vaccine distribution ramps up and this is less of an issue. Biden hasn't had a lot of time yet, and he inherited a state level scheme for all of this.

 

I don't disagree but I think underestimating or not depends on how you define normalizing and at different levels.

At all level, normal is with herd immunity (fully normal to preCovid). In the US, that may never happen and will likely not happen this year. But that's not a goal we need to attain for society to function again.

At the personal level, normal is self-safety. That should happen for all adults (that want a vaccine) by around Summer.

At a society level, new normal (still masking - which btw, our live experiment with masking correlate with almost a complete suppression of flu, so I hope that is a NEW normal for flu season) is harder to define, but should be sooner than at the personal level. Maybe 30% is right, but it could easily be higher. Israel is now at 30% vaccinated or recovered and they have yet to take a dramatic turn in daily cases, the leading indicator. Digging in deeper, the vaccinated population is clearly seeing a decline while the un-vaccinated is still seeing a rise in daily cases - multiple things at play here. Possible decreased adherence to covid guideline for the vaccinated (and even unvaccinated) population. The assumption that vaccinated population no longer spread is likely right but not yet conclusive. Efficiency in real world is likely lower than in trials, and in particular likely lower for the older population (immune system not as responsive to vaccine) who are the mass majority of the vaccinated population. Efficiency may also be reduced with the emergence of the deadlier viral strains.

Anyhow, I would be watching Israel to look for early evidence at the cross-over point for the whole population to start returning to normal... which should be a slow gradual process while keeping an eye on the leading indicator. In the US, we are probably at 20% vaccinated (1st dose) or recovered (maybe even 30% with high # of unreported cases). We have super bowl this Sun - two weeks after that will tell us if there is another major bump. Then we have easter coming up... another good indicator.

Israel, a Global Leader in COVID Vaccinations, Finds Limits (khaosodenglish.com)

 

Not sure if people who don’t think teachers need to be vaccinated right now are aware that if the school is opened properly, the teacher will get quarantined for potentially weeks at a time just from being exposed to another positive case. They don’t actually have to come down with Covid to force the class to be taught by a sub for an extended period. I imagine that’s not any better than virtual learning from an education standpoint, although from a childcare standpoint I suppose it carries substantial benefit. From a taxpayer standpoint, you’re paying for those teachers to stay home and do nothing.