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ClutchFans Game Thread: Suns @ Rockets 1/20/2021

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Clutch, Jan 19, 2021.

  1. Roomba

    Roomba Member
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    Right now I have confidence that our front office can draft the right guy if it’s a sure-thing type of pick. Not sure how much faith I’d have in them getting a steal, but Stone has proved me wrong before! I agree with not wanting to tank but right now our record looks very tankish. There’s still a chance that we go on a run, though. The current roster does have playoff talent.

    I also think we should give Bennett a shot..
     
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  2. Joe Rocket

    Joe Rocket Member

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    Just to make myself clear before I log off. YOU CANT TANK IF YOURE ALREADY A BOTTOM SEED. If you trade for more picks at the deadline you are just rebuilding with the understanding that you already are very bad even with the so called stars you have. Unless you can some how get a star for what we already have you should be shooting for picks.
     
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  3. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Are you understanding the argument that's going on?

    Some posters are FOR tanking, losing games on purpose.
    Some are not.

    that's the argument. Whether the team is good enough for it to matter is an entire argument already that I've already weighed in on...see below...

     
  4. Joe Rocket

    Joe Rocket Member

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    Christ on a biscuit WE ARE ALREADY LOSING. YOU CANNOT CHOOSE TO "TANK" IF YOURE ALREADY LOSING. goodnight man lol
     
  5. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Christ on a biscuit is right.

    The argument that's been going on is 'To tank or not to tank' and it sounds like you have more issues with the pro-tank crowd than the anti-tank crowd but not getting it and lashing out at me for some strange reason.

    Because I've been saying the team isn't tanking and shouldn't tank. That they are bottom of the NBA right now doesn't change that statement.
     
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  6. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    The arguments against tanking being tossed about in here are crazy.

    No one is proposing teams with 2 top 30 players should think about tanking. (Utah, Portland, Denver) Even if they don’t really have a legit title chance. They have legit, proven pieces.

    No one is proposing teams with generational type talent under 23 years old tank just because they have no chance to currently win.(Dallas)

    This Rockets team doesn’t fit either of those criteria.

    Wood is a promising piece. Could very well find his way into the top 30-50 players in this league and an outside chance at slightly better. But he’s not exactly young and nothing about what he has shown so far screams cornerstone piece. GREAT 3rd best player. Average to below average 2nd guy. Going nowhere as your best.
     
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  7. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    The arguments FOR tanking are crazy because they are going by the assumption that drafting top 5 for 2 years guarantees a franchise player. It doesn't.

    If it did then one could conclude that even teams like Utah and Portland would do it since they aren't winning anything anytime soon...it is then doubly true for Dallas since Luka is on a long team controlled contract so why wouldn't they just tank for another year or two, draft another Luka, and be set for a decade?
     
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  8. Joe Rocket

    Joe Rocket Member

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    Not lashing out. The issue is youre calling it tanking when its not tanking. As Jordnnnn said if you are a middle of the road team and decide to sit everyone and throw games then you are tanking. but if you are already bad you cannot be tanking. Youre saying people are for tanking when they are not because you dont understand what tanking means lol "tanking" means bottom. So regardless if someone says "im for tanking", we cant tank because we are already a bottom team. We are going to lose games whether we want to or not. Even with a full squad so theres no such thing as tanking FOR US. The rockets made every effort to be good but they are not. getting rid of bad players for picks/role players is not tanking its all we can do or we stick with the losing team we have. Those are the choices tanking isnt one of them.
     
  9. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    That's the thing though man, I've never said the Rockets are currently tanking.

    Tanking is building your team to lose on purpose to improve your draft position and tanking is literally always a decision, you can always lose one more game than your opponent, The Eagles literally did this and the coach was fired for it since it upset the players so much.

    We're not actually at the bottom of the NBA either so your whole point is lost on me there, there are still 3 teams worse than us...so that means people for tanking (And they flat out say they are for losing games on purpose...) still need us to get even worse. @HP3 wants us at the very bottom and he's rooting for us to play cousins more so we can lose more games.

    How is that not tanking?
     
  10. csc177

    csc177 Member

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    James Harden scrolling through the espn app being grateful he abandoned the titanic....
     
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  11. Hesitation

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    Harden was our iceberg.
     
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  12. Joe Rocket

    Joe Rocket Member

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    Playing one of your rotation players more is tanking? What if Cousins gets better? Some game's he's faired better than wood others wood was better and if were talking defense wood is almost always worse lol You guys really havent thought this out. Either side, its just dumb. You dont have to do anything with this team to make it any worse than it already is lol I feel dumber for having this conversation. we lose with or without our main players how on earth do you decide to tank youre gonna lose anyway lol
     
  13. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    Not really because the point is to get 1 generational talent first and foremost and go from there. Drafting that talent has proven to be pretty essential. And outliers be damned, the higher up you draft the likelier it is you hit.

    Rockets sucked and drafted Dream and eventually attracted others from there. Spurs pull off the rare tank with an established top guy and proceed to draft everything they need to succeed . Lakers draft Kobe and attracted the rest. Miami drafts Wade and attracted the rest. Warriors draft Curry and attracts another generational piece. What we pulled off with Harden was one of the rarest of rare of exceptions in league history. We acquired our 1st generational guy without drafting him and without a tank. It just doesn’t happen,

    Once you acquire and with a high degree of certainty identify a player as a cornerstone then the tank is no longer the way to go. You have done the hardest part. It’s time to attempt to start building a winner.

    I dont believe we have a cornerstone yet. I guess if you squint really hard and are brimming with optimism you could see Wood is that guy, I just don’t see it.
     
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  14. Joe Rocket

    Joe Rocket Member

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    Wood would be a good guy next to "the" guy.
     
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  15. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Yes, playing a rotation player is tanking if said player makes your team clearly worse. Tanking teams do this all the time.

    Neither side is dumb I think you just jumped into the conversation not getting what either side has been arguing. Some people want to lose MORE games and ensure we have the worst record...some of us want the team to stay as competitive as they can. For example, I think removing Ego (for picks, sure, whatever) makes us better because he doesn't fit what Silas wants to do. People for tanking think the team should keep Wall out for the season, rest any nagging injuries (so demanding Wood sit out for the rest of the game...he almost brought the team back), and ensure being the worst team in the NBA. We're only 4th worse, to maximize our shot at getting our pick we need to be #1, that way it's a coinflip between top 4 or OKC picking 5th.

    If you feel like you've gotten dumber then that's on you I guess. I wouldn't have gone that far but I try to remain as cordial as possible with people. It's just basketball.
     
  16. banzai

    banzai Contributing Member

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    We’re basically a g-league team right now with some tattered players that were trying to rehab and flip for picks obviously!
     
  17. Joe Rocket

    Joe Rocket Member

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    We've lost games with or without Cousins and there's a chance he gets better with more playing time lol This is really getting sad at this point. WE LOSE WITH OUR WITHOUT OUR MAIN GUYS. If you take Gordon away we may even be a little better lol
     
  18. Joe Rocket

    Joe Rocket Member

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    Exactly!!
     
  19. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    I agree with all of this it's just it's now a lot harder to get a top 5 pick and draft that player. I think it's to the point that most teams now aren't really trying to tank.

    The Wolves certainly arent or Washington...Detroit is though, clearly.

    Honestly, finding another player like Harden is so rare and hard I feel like the best thing you can do no matter what is build your team as best you can. Develop players (Like Jones, Tate) and either wait for a disgruntled superstar to fall from another franchise or trade them for lottery picks that may become lucky bounces for you in the future.

    It's also been oddly more common that stars come later in the draft because the NBA talent pool has widened a lot since those days. Giannis never goes 15 for example if he was American and played at Duke.

    I think tanking is riskier because of the downsides it brings, a parade of coaches and creating an environment that no player wants to be apart of and then you become the Knicks where even if you are in New York players avoid your team like the plague. I think you can still draft high and draft superstars playing it straight. I guess that's where me and tankers differ...because a lot of stars come from that 5-14 range too...if your team drafts well.
     
  20. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    It is getting sad because I've said that like 10x now that taking Gordon away might make us better because of fit.

    And Cousins has been bad...really bad...since he talked about being disrespected. The team will be down 2 then Cousins comes in and they'll be down 17...then they'll fight back and then 4th quarter Cousins minutes hit (along with Bmac) and they'll then go right back down 10+. It's been the theme for almost every game outside of that one Spurs win since Cousins didn't play.

    Is Cousins all to blame for that? No. But he sure as hell ain't helping.
     

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